DoD Releases Plan to Allow Personnel to Carry Firearms on Base

[oldpink]

Hmmm...and all this time I was under the mistaken belief that this was a pro-gun forum.

 

[STEEL CORE]

Base/Post commanders rule the roost, I don't think it will happen.

 

[Bill of Rights]

No one above E-4 knew it happened. Nothing official happened. We did not view it as anything worthy of getting an NCO or law enforcement involved in.
...

Wait... a man held a knife to another man's throat. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. There was a man, a friend of yours, in imminent danger of losing his life, and you didn't think it was worthy of involving some authority figure?

Da*n. I guess the military IS different from the civilian world.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wait... a man held a knife to another man's throat. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. There was a man, a friend of yours, in imminent danger of losing his life, and you didn't think it was worthy of involving some authority figure?

Da*n. I guess the military IS different from the civilian world.

At least at the time, when hazing was still allowed and even encouraged, there was a lot of leeway in how you dealt with problems in the barracks. Someone with poor hygiene may be forced into a shower and washed with green scrubby pads, for example. In this case, it was talked out. Knife wielder guy had grown up in single mother household with no father figure and not much of a home life. He'd latched on to Mr. Rogers as a positive example and as someone who paid attention to him (through the tv) and loved him. The guy kept pushing, and knife guy snapped. And, you know, we'd been drinking. In our minds, knife guy was fully justified, and the guy he attacked not only asked for it but was a weakling in his response.

I'm sure there are family events that are similar that are never reported to the authorities...and we were sort of a big semi-functional family...with lots of boozing. It never even occurred to me to go outside the barracks to resolve the issue. Nor did it, apparently, occur to anyone else including the victim. They kissed and made up (figuratively, this was don't ask/don't tell days) shortly thereafter and the whole incident was largely forgotten. I didn't think of it in these terms then, but I suppose you could say that unit cohesion was more important than punishing wrong doing. We had one guy who was such a thief that you would make him clap his hands the whole time he was in your room. As far as I know, he was never reported officially, although he was rather clumsy and fell down the stairs on occasion.

While the knife was outside the norm, arguments, posturing, and the occasional fight was not.

 

[AndersonIN]

At least at the time, when hazing was still allowed and even encouraged, there was a lot of leeway in how you dealt with problems in the barracks. Someone with poor hygiene may be forced into a shower and washed with green scrubby pads, for example. In this case, it was talked out. Knife wielder guy had grown up in single mother household with no father figure and not much of a home life. He'd latched on to Mr. Rogers as a positive example and as someone who paid attention to him (through the tv) and loved him. The guy kept pushing, and knife guy snapped. And, you know, we'd been drinking. In our minds, knife guy was fully justified, and the guy he attacked not only asked for it but was a weakling in his response.

I'm sure there are family events that are similar that are never reported to the authorities...and we were sort of a big semi-functional family...with lots of boozing. It never even occurred to me to go outside the barracks to resolve the issue. Nor did it, apparently, occur to anyone else including the victim. They kissed and made up (figuratively, this was don't ask/don't tell days) shortly thereafter and the whole incident was largely forgotten. I didn't think of it in these terms then, but I suppose you could say that unit cohesion was more important than punishing wrong doing. We had one guy who was such a thief that you would make him clap his hands the whole time he was in your room. As far as I know, he was never reported officially, although he was rather clumsy and fell down the stairs on occasion.

While the knife was outside the norm, arguments, posturing, and the occasional fight was not.

Being a Policeman in the military our little "king of hygiene" (after MULTIPLE warnings) was also handcuffed to the shower, fully clothed. Of course after being coated in several layers of laundry detergent. To this day I can't remember how he ever got out. We were just order by the same Sgt. that suggested to do it in the first place, not to do it again. Aaaa the good memories!

 

[drillsgt]

Hmmm...and all this time I was under the mistaken belief that this was a pro-gun forum.

For some members the idea of protecting yourself is sort of the good for me but not for thee type axiom.

 

[MoparMan]

For some members the idea of protecting yourself is sort of the good for me but not for thee type axiom.

^^THIS^^

 

[Kutnupe14]

For some members the idea of protecting yourself is sort of the good for me but not for thee type axiom.

So you think the military should observe ALL things contained within the BoRs, for its members? Ya know, to be consistent. Let's throw in the 1st, 4th, and 5th too.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

For some members the idea of protecting yourself is sort of the good for me but not for thee type axiom.

I disarm going into a jail setting. Why?

 

[Kutnupe14]

I disarm going into a jail setting. Why?

Because you hate the 2nd Anendment, duh.

 

[mammynun]

As an 11B E-5 at Ft Bragg 1984-90, I agree with BBI. I don't like that I agree with him, but I do.

I can only speak from my experiences, but people who have never been in the military cannot begin to fathom the debauchery and havoc that a tight knit group of young paratroopers can be involved in when properly fueled on cheap beer from the ClassVI. My platoon lost 2 soldiers who murdered a guy on leave with a knife, and I lost an ATL who was with them... once he came forward all 3 vanished. One of the guys in the PLT put a chip in the linoleum floor of his room with a .45acp that would NOT buff out, and he was afforded many, many, many opportunities to try.

We had to store POW's in the arms room, and get the OIC's (usually our CO) to get them out. If you hadn't wasted your money on a nice car, you had nice guns and up until 86 that meant full auto. Back then, paratroopers were encouraged to drink by their CoC, and the only safety briefing I ever got was about the dangers of swimming as a guy in another PLT had drown. He was, of course, drunk, but swimming was dangerous.... anyway, the point is I've fired a lot of cool machineguns while legally drunk.

DrillSgt says thinks have changed, I believe him. My son (E-7 in the IN Guard) says things have changed, and I believe him too. But my experience says that this will end with a loss of military lives that exceeds those that are saved.

And that may be another cost of freedom.

 

[in625shooter]

As an 11B E-5 at Ft Bragg 1984-90, I agree with BBI. I don't like that I agree with him, but I do.

I can only speak from my experiences, but people who have never been in the military cannot begin to fathom the debauchery and havoc that a tight knit group of young paratroopers can be involved in when properly fueled on cheap beer from the ClassVI. My platoon lost 2 soldiers who murdered a guy on leave with a knife, and I lost an ATL who was with them... once he came forward all 3 vanished. One of the guys in the PLT put a chip in the linoleum floor of his room with a .45acp that would NOT buff out, and he was afforded many, many, many opportunities to try.

We had to store POW's in the arms room, and get the OIC's (usually our CO) to get them out. If you hadn't wasted your money on a nice car, you had nice guns and up until 86 that meant full auto. Back then, paratroopers were encouraged to drink by their CoC, and the only safety briefing I ever got was about the dangers of swimming as a guy in another PLT had drown. He was, of course, drunk, but swimming was dangerous.... anyway, the point is I've fired a lot of cool machineguns while legally drunk.

DrillSgt says thinks have changed, I believe him. My son (E-7 in the IN Guard) says things have changed, and I believe him too. But my experience says that this will end with a loss of military lives that exceeds those that are saved.

And that may be another cost of freedom.

^^THIS^^

I spent 21 years in the USAF both active e and ANG as a Security Police/Security Forces and also spent time as a CATM instructor. And joke as one may the USAF had a good firearms training program (SP's were dictated to carry M9's with a round in the chamber and weapon on fire as well as JHP's at stateside bases)

That being said I echo Mammynun, a vast majority of Military members are nowhere near tip of the spear as many (especially themselves) think. And a majority of even the semi Combat folks have mediocre training or worse mindset.

I'm all for them being g able to carry and exercising their rights but to say I don't have some concern from my experiences would be an untrue statement.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I appreciate the guys who have served chiming in on this topic. I find it pretty eye opening.

 

[KJQ6945]

This thread has been a walk down memory lane.

As a gun owner, my initial thought, is hell yes, the military should be armed. But reading through this, and thinking back to when I was in, and the stupid **** I did, it might not be such a good idea.

As BBI stated, we were all "trained killers" regardless of MOS. 18 years old, in great shape, trained to whoop the world, and if you weren't working, you were drinking. What could possibly go wrong?

Looking back at it, about the only thing I would change, would be guard duty. I remember being on guard duty, walking around THE ammo dump at Ft Gordon. The Russians were coming to get it, they told us so. They gave me a stick.

Security at military facilities has changed 100 fold since 9-11, compared to when I was in, in the eighties, but I think there should always be armed troops present. Weapons and live ammo were so highly restricted in a non combat environment, that yes, really bad things could happen.

In the military, somebody is always on a watch. They need to be armed! The rules about personal weapons need to be reevaluated. Our service members are targets more today than in the past. It needs to be addressed, and the regs will probably need to change to adapt to changing threats. The punishments for violating them, will be swift and severe. Let's just hope it all works out for the best.

 

[ATM]

...Security at military facilities has changed 100 fold since 9-11, compared to when I was in, in the eighties, but I think there should always be armed troops present...

And fighter interceptors, too. We can't just keep those unavailable anymore ...not since 9-11.

And we can't just ever not be at war anymore ... not since 9-11.

I mean, we can't even feel safe that our most resilient buildings won't just demolish themselves to the ground from normal office fires

...not since 9-11.

 

[oldpink]

And fighter interceptors, too. We can't just keep those unavailable anymore ...not since 9-11.

And we can't just ever not be at war anymore ... not since 9-11.

I mean, we can't even feel safe that our most resilient buildings won't just demolish themselves to the ground from normal office fires

...not since 9-11.

I was unaware that Nidal Hassan wasn't motivated by Islamism, encouraged by a radical imam.
Thanks for explaining that to all us stupid people.

 

[Birds Away]

"Normal office fires?" That's just absurd.

 

[ATM]

I was unaware that Nidal Hassan wasn't motivated by Islamism, encouraged by a radical imam.
Thanks for explaining that to all us stupid people.

Are you sure that was me explaining something about Hassan to all you stupid people? You quoted me, but your reply makes no sense.

"Normal office fires?" That's just absurd.

Thank you! That's exactly what I keep saying in another thread, but people have tried to argue in defense of that "theory". Crazy, right?

Normal office fires don't cause steel framed high rise buildings to completely demolish themselves at nearly the speed of gravity. Ever.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, as someone who served, I'd say the "No Guns Allowed" was one of the MOST broken rule there was. A large amount of us had pistols in barracks, cars, etc.

 

[Slawburger]

Just out of curiousity, has everyone posting in the thread read or at least scanned Section 4 of DOD Directive 5210.56?