Dont dig the rig

[Small's]

Good article on holsters and gun selections or not Don?t #DIGTHERIG- Part 2 | Active Response Training

 

[j4jenk]

I find it difficult to take the guy seriously he's claiming a 50% failure rate with Taurus 1911s

 

[Gabriel]

I find it difficult to take the guy seriously he's claiming a 50% failure rate with Taurus 1911s

I agree. I'd think it would be more like 80%.

 

[j4jenk]

Is this there an issue with Taurus 1911s that I'm not aware of.....all of the ones I've ever seen ran great. Same with the 92s. I thought it was mostly the Taurus designed stuff that had issues.

 

[Gabriel]

Is this there an issue with Taurus 1911s that I'm not aware of.....all of the ones I've ever seen ran great. Same with the 92s. I thought it was mostly the Taurus designed stuff that had issues.

I was just kidding. I am not a big fan of Taurus is all.

 

[Spike Jones 5 2002]

I find it difficult to take the guy seriously he's claiming a 50% failure rate with Taurus 1911s

I had a slight problem with my Taurus 1911.
The slide felt a bit loose. I contacted Taurus.
The tech suggested I squeeze it in a vice.
I said i was not comfortable tampering with a firearm.
Taurus sent me a prepaid return label.
It was returned better than ever.
I have shot over 500 rounds.
"0" problems.
great grouping at 15 and 20 yards.

 

[wtburnette]

I'm sure that what an instructor sees at classes where guns are run hard and many, many rounds are run through them, vs what a typical user sees running 100-200 rounds through their weapon during a their weekly / monthly range trip is probably a bit different.

 

[Gabriel]

I'm sure that what an instructor sees at classes where guns are run hard and many, many rounds are run through them, vs what a typical user sees running 100-200 rounds through their weapon during a their weekly / monthly range trip is probably a bit different.

This is true. I've seen a lot of failures on guns that I now avoid by being on both sides of that (instructor and student). I was in one class where three bolt action rifles failed. I didn't think that was even possible since they have about five parts.

Back on the 50% Taurus failures. It's possible, that since the guns were all provided by Taurus at the same time, there was a manufacturing defect that affected them all if they came off the assembly line at the same time. It happens to manufacturers all the time.

 

[seedubs1]

This. Running something through a class is typically more abusive than going to the range and throwing some lead down range. Classes and actually training will find problems that your typical range trip will not.

I'm sure that what an instructor sees at classes where guns are run hard and many, many rounds are run through them, vs what a typical user sees running 100-200 rounds through their weapon during a their weekly / monthly range trip is probably a bit different.

 

[Lelliott8]

In my experience, and those who are a heck of a lot better than me, Glocks, S&W M&P's, and Sigs are the only ones that consistently make it through training classes. BUT, casual range shooting and defensive encounters are not the same as a training class. You'll either put a lot less rounds through your pistol, and/or at a slower pace. Still, do you want to stake your life or your loved ones lives on inferior gear? Put away your ego and use the proper tool.

 

[Tactically Fat]

MonterreyC6 and I witnessed a G23 choke at a beginner class not too long ago.

It happens to all guns at times. However, I'm convinced that the above referenced choking was due to crappy MagTech ammo vs anything of the gun's fault.

Now - you put in a not quite up to snuff firearm PLUS crappy ammo? You're gonna have a bad time.

I personally have choked a Walther P99 AND a Springfield EMP 9mm on crappy steel-cased ammo. And I've choked a M&P on crappy steel-cased ammo.

I sense a pattern...

 

[rhino]

MonterreyC6 and I witnessed a G23 choke at a beginner class not too long ago.

It happens to all guns at times. However, I'm convinced that the above referenced choking was due to crappy MagTech ammo vs anything of the gun's fault.

Now - you put in a not quite up to snuff firearm PLUS crappy ammo? You're gonna have a bad time.

I personally have choked a Walther P99 AND a Springfield EMP 9mm on crappy steel-cased ammo. And I've choked a M&P on crappy steel-cased ammo.

I sense a pattern...

I've had good luck with about 4,000 rounds of Magtech 9mm and 1000 rds of .45ACP in the past. Is it suckier now?

 

[masterdekoy]

Re: Taurus handguns, the 709 slim (looks like the model pictured in the article) is one of only 3 firearms to make it to 1050 rounds in guns & ammo's 9mm single stack shootout, along with the g43 and pps. See link below for reference. I personally hate to see a company try to make a name for themselves by bashing another company. I understand what the author is trying to say but there's a better way to say it.

Just my opinion.

Guns & Ammo's Single Stack 9mm Shootout (Updated) - Guns & Ammo

 

[wtburnette]

I've had good luck with about 4,000 rounds of Magtech 9mm and 1000 rds of .45ACP in the past. Is it suckier now?

Some of the dirtiest ammo I've ever run, even worse than WWB in my experience.

Re: Taurus handguns, the 709 slim (looks like the model pictured in the article) is one of only 3 firearms to make it to 1050 rounds in guns & ammo's 9mm single stack shootout, along with the g43 and pps. See link below for reference. I personally hate to see a company try to make a name for themselves by bashing another company. I understand what the author is trying to say but there's a better way to say it.

Just my opinion.

Guns & Ammo's Single Stack 9mm Shootout (Updated) - Guns & Ammo

Problem is, testing one of each model, or even a few of each model isn't really much of a test. There might be a bad batch or two that isn't indicative of anything. I've got a M&P Shield and I've ran about 3000 rounds through it, 1200 or so without cleaning it, with never a single problem. Then again, I've had issues with plenty of other guns that other people swear by. Every model can have a lemon, at least to some extent.

 

[Small's]

I have taken a few classes and all of pretty much said to avoid taurus and keltec. I took a tac shotgun class at TDI where the guy who wrote this article teaches occasionally. They put out an article to avoid all of these new tactical looking guns like the keltec ksg etc because they all have broken or completely quit working. They said none of them made it through a class without some kind of major problem. . My buddy took a ksg and a backup mossberg. Needless to say his ksg completely quit working at the end of the first day.. Most guns run ok with very light use but if you take them and get them hot and or dirty things go south quick. I have a keltec p3at that i bought years ago and it works decent but does occasionally jam. I do pocket carry it from time to time but im iffy on trusting my life to it. I feel the same way about most lower end guns if its going to be something i would trust my life to. If its a play gun them thats different. Glocks, M&P, sig, h&k, XD and maybe a few others are good choices. After all these instructors see more rounds go off in two or three days then most people see in a lifetime. They know what holds up and what doesnt. I highly respect their opinion especially after seeing it first hand.

 

[Small's]

the active response website puts out a weekly email dump that you can sign up for "knowledge dump" that is usually pretty good and has alot of good informative information. I have learned from some of the articles

 

[Hohn]

I'm sure that what an instructor sees at classes where guns are run hard and many, many rounds are run through them, vs what a typical user sees running 100-200 rounds through their weapon during a their weekly / monthly range trip is probably a bit different.

It would be like judging the inherent accuracy of an M16 using the shot-out Viet Nam-era rifles I fired in AF basic training. You mean the accuracy degrades after 15,000 rounds?

 

[TheBoss930]

Maybe just bad ammo?

P.S you never admit to anyone, you used someone elses guns for their add..... Maybe you had a falling out with your sponsor, but doesn't mean you need to talk behind their backs

 

[Tactically Fat]

I've had good luck with about 4,000 rounds of Magtech 9mm and 1000 rds of .45ACP in the past. Is it suckier now?

I'm almost positive that it was in a Magtech box. But I'm now second-guessing myself.

Blue and white box. I suppose it COULD have been reloads in the box. It could also have been another brand.

All I know was that it was smoky stuff and it choked the guy's G23 more than once.

 

[cosermann]

Original installment - Don?t #DIGTHERIG | Active Response Training

Will be interesting to see how long the series runs. I like what looks to be the standard concluding paragraph on both posts:

"Equipment isn’t the most important factor in winning your defensive encounter. With that said, you don’t want to intentionally diminish your performance by using bad gear. It’s hard enough to win a gunfight when everything goes well. It’s a lot harder when you have sub optimal guns and holsters."