DOW to 20,000 today?!!

[hoosierdoc]

Well, Telsa makes no money, they're definitely on the cutting edge (so avoid the survivorship bias), and are general panned by stock pickers (i.e. "sell" recommendations galore). In other words, there's a whole lotta sizzle on this one, but the steak might come out well done and have been dropped on the floor.

So, if you're looking for excitement, then yeah, I guess buy TSLA with the expectation of losing a lot of money. Basically, it's a lottery ticket.

figured that's what you meant. they are worth more than Ford now I think. Certainly a gamble, but so was amazon back in the day when they were losing a ton. And look now. May be worth a small investment.

They have a lot of product lines coming along. If the solar roof is even somewhat decent that would be huge.

 

[indiucky]

Well, Telsa makes no money, they're definitely on the cutting edge In other words, there's a whole lotta sizzle on this one, but the steak might come out well done and have been dropped on the floor.

Really??? Cutting edge???? C'mon....They were never good...

[video=youtube;bDw4lsPDEho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDw4lsPDEho[/video]

 

[JettaKnight]

figured that's what you meant. they are worth more than Ford now I think.

Yes, the market cap exceeds Ford - a company that makes a profit and provides dividends...
F is down 10% YTD, whereas TSLA is up 50%.

Certainly a gamble, but so was amazon back in the day when they were losing a ton. And look now. May be worth a small investment.

They have a lot of product lines coming along. If the solar roof is even somewhat decent that would be huge.

That's survivorship bias.

Everyone points to the winners, no one points to the losers... CNET, Yahoo, AOL and a whole host of forgotten companies left on the trash heap.


You're right - it might be worth a lot, it's really hard to judge disruptive companies - or Rule Breakers as Motley Fool founder David Gardener called them. As long as you're not investing money you need, go for it, if you like.

EDIT: Found this when researching...

"The reality is great highs, terrible lows and unrelenting stress," Musk tweeted. "Don't think people want to hear about the last two."
When someone else asked if he was bipolar, Musk replied "Yeah," but then followed up with: "Maybe not medically tho. Dunno. Bad feelings correlate to bad events, so maybe real problem is getting carried away in what I sign up for."

He's the Nikola Tesla of our day.


Full disclosure: JettaKnight owns shares of Ford.

 

[JettaKnight]

Really??? Cutting edge???? C'mon....They were never good...

Ugh. Why, Indiucky, WHY?!!!

I hate that song so very, very much.

 

[churchmouse]

Ugh. Why, Indiucky, WHY?!!!

I hate that song so very, very much.

OMG I hate it worse than you do I will bet even money.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

figured that's what you meant. they are worth more than Ford now I think.

That's what all the headlines told you. It's true in a fashion, the market cap is higher. In short, all the Tesla stock in existence is worth 52.78 billion. All the Ford stock is worth 43.33 billion.

However look at the actual companies, and that switches pretty dramatically.

In real broad strokes, assets - liabilities = equity.

Ford has $29 billion in equity.
Tesla has $4.7 billion in equity.

In 2016, retained earnings:
Ford: $15 billion
Tesla: $3 billion (loss)

In short, it depends on how you define worth. Ford the company is without a doubt worth significantly more than Tesla the company. However, Tesla stock is worth more than Ford stock. You're paying real heavy for potential growth with Tesla. Ford lacks that growth potential, but has a very healthy balance sheet, pays dividends, and is pretty stable.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I was referring to market cap on the "worth more" statement, and I understand a lot of that is hype and expectation.

the amazon comparisons was from their origin they started out with one thing and then kept adding service line after service line which kept them from making profits. Tesla has several product lines and acquisitions that are intriguing and could be absolutely enormous.

I'm not much of a fan of musk. But I'll gladly take the gains of the company he runs if they happen.

netflix supposedly has $20Billion in debt. I considered buying them also but holy cow. $20 billion?

 

[indiucky]

OMG a DOUBLE!!!!!!!

I knocked both Churchmouse and Jetta with a terrible 80's hair band song......I am ******** in high tobacco today!!!!!!

(Don't worry boys...Just pull up Peter Chris singing "Beth" and everything will be okay....Or maybe "Every Rose has it's Thorn"????)

 

[JettaKnight]

I HATE 80's HAIR BALLADS!!!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I was referring to market cap on the "worth more" statement, and I understand a lot of that is hype and expectation.

the amazon comparisons was from their origin they started out with one thing and then kept adding service line after service line which kept them from making profits. Tesla has several product lines and acquisitions that are intriguing and could be absolutely enormous.

I'm not much of a fan of musk. But I'll gladly take the gains of the company he runs if they happen.

netflix supposedly has $20Billion in debt. I considered buying them also but holy cow. $20 billion?

Something to consider is Musk started Tesla to prove the battery market. What happens when that's done and his next startup is the battery company, and Tesla is just another niche car maker?

 

[JettaKnight]

I'll stick to small, boring companies that are well run and turn tidy profits. Roller bearing, kitty litter, Brazilian sewer systems, re-insurance and tortillas aren't sexy, but they're great long-term investments.


(Indiucky - got any videos for those items?)

 

[JettaKnight]

Something to consider is Musk started Tesla to prove the battery market. What happens when that's done and his next startup is the battery company, and Tesla is just another niche car maker?

Good point. At some point he's going to lose interest before it becomes a boring company seeking profits.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Something to consider is Musk started Tesla to prove the battery market. What happens when that's done and his next startup is the battery company, and Tesla is just another niche car maker?

i thought he bought Tesla.

correction, it existed and he joined the next round of investors and eventually became CEO

 

[BehindBlueI's]

i thought he bought Tesla.

correction, it existed and he joined the next round of investors and eventually became CEO

He did not found it, but I'd argue he started it. Much like Ray Kroc and McDonald's.

Regardless, he's been very up front that he sees the most potential growth in the market being batteries, not cars.

https://www.tesla.com/gigafactory is a result, a joint deal with Panasonic.

A friend of my aunt works for Tesla in ATL and talked them into investing. They, in turn, told me what a great opportunity, etc. etc. After I did my research I elected to not invest. Your goals and risk tolerance may be different.

 

[hoosierdoc]

That's fair. Sort of like bill gates choosing OS over hardware.

Battery recycling will be huge too.

 

[Jludo]

The newscaster I was watching today made a point to say "of course the DOW doing well has NOTHING to do with Trump or politics". The media blames EVERYTHING bad that happens on the GOP, but heaven forbid they give them ANY credit for ANYTHING GOOD that happens

The problem with giving Trump credit for the stock market gains is that you'd have to give Obama credit for gains up to this point.

 

[Jludo]

I read a book on mutual find investing a long time ago by John Bogle of Vanguard. IARC, he said there were 3 things involved in mutual find investing:
The Market
Fund Manager
Fees

You can't control the market or consistently time it profitably, and no manager beats the market in the long run. The only thing you can control is fees, whether that's sales loads or management fees. So do your home work (though past performance is a light to the stern) and pick the lowest fees fund.

The must recent episode of freakanomics is really good on this, interviews Bogle.
Freakonomics - The hidden side of everything Freakonomics | The hidden side of everything

titled 'the stupidest thing you can do with your money' you can probably guess where they stand on mutual funds.

 

[rhino]

IT'S ALL SORCERY!
​

 

[amboy49]

Something to consider is Musk started Tesla to prove the battery market. What happens when that's done and his next startup is the battery company, and Tesla is just another niche car maker?

You're a little late. Do a Google search on Musk and his battery factory in Nevada. As of June of this year Musk has announced development of an improved battery. His plans have included battery development from the git go.

If you're so inclined, also do a search on the federal loans and other subsidies that Tesla has received over time and then check to see how much of Musk's own capital has been put in the company. I believe Musk loaned the company money at greater than usury while he borrowed money from the Feds ( you and me ultimately) at a greatly discounted rate. I'm not saying he's not a promoter and slick business man. I guess you could also define him as a film flam man. If Musk's activitys could be attributed to Trump there would be headlines calling for his public beheading.

 

[Hkindiana]

A baloon is always at its biggest before it bursts