DPMS AR-15 $596

[LPMan59]

do you also think a BSA or NcStar is as good as an Aimpoint? They're both red dots after all.

 

[billt]

The worst functioning AR I have ever owned was an LMT. Jammed every 10 rounds Sent it back, shot it, jammed every other mag....Yet, I have a run of the mill bushmaster that has yet to FTF in over nearly 10,000 rounds.

Point is....If you have an AR. (any brand) and it shoots for you reliably, than don't get into the hype of upgrading because you feel your AR model isn't worthy of this higher priced ones.

Huge +1 !

For 99.99% of civilian AR-15 owners and shooters, a "Top Tier" or "Mil-Spec" gun is going to perform no better, or last any longer than a DPMS, Bushmaster, or whatever. Besides, the "best" AR-15 varies every couple of years depending on which models the ARFCOM boys happen to be performing their newest circle jerk to. For years it was Colt, only Colt, and nothing but Colt. Now they ejaculate over anything from BCM. It as if Colt has fallen off the face of the Earth. Some of these guys are worse with AR-15's than women are with shoes. Bill T.

 

[christman]

ummm no. the point was that DPMS is a plinker/range gun. and YOU disagreed, not me.

I explained why DPMS is considered a range gun and not a gun to bet your life on (DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION, ie GOING TO IRAQ).

DPMS has a history of using poor quality, out of spec parts. They have a history of poor QC. They have a history of using out-of-spec chambers. They fail more in carbine classes than companies like LMT and Colt. You call it snobbery; normal people call it reality.

Negative, I didn't disagree that it wasn't a range gun, I disagreed that it wasn't as worthy to trust as other top tier rifles if you spend so much time using it at the range "Reliably". You plan on fighting those pesky government types underwater, in a sandstorm, at night, on a leap year? Because your acting like this is the end all AR that he is ever going to buy at less than 600 bucks...

 

[dom1104]

do you also think a BSA or NcStar is as good as an Aimpoint? They're both red dots after all.

This is a good comparison.

I have a Primary Arms M4 Red Dot on my 22lr AR upper. $79 bucks.

Has it ever failed me? No.

Is it as good as the Aimpoint? No.

Would I ever, EVER trust it with my life? No.

Would I even take it to an all day rifle competition? Nope.

It has been 100% reliable with 5.56 and 22lr, but I KNOW, its not the quality of a Aimpoint.

 

[dom1104]

The point is, for about 900 bucks you can get a EXCELLENT rifle, the question is, is the extra 300 dollars worth it?

Alot of people think it is.

 

[LPMan59]

Negative, I didn't disagree that it wasn't a range gun, I disagreed that it wasn't as worthy to trust as other top tier rifles if you spend so much time using it at the range "Reliably". You plan on fighting those pesky government types underwater, in a sandstorm, at night, on a leap year? Because your acting like this is the end all AR that he is ever going to buy at less than 600 bucks...

the only thing i'm doing is dispelling the internet/gunshop saleman myth of "it's all the same." you remind of people who claim an Epiphone is the same as a Gibson. They are the same shape and have strings, right? Both say "Les Paul" on them right? And anyone who calls you on it is a "snob."

he or anyone can buy whatever they want. but one should make an informed decision. forgive me if i think $600 could be better spent on something else.

 

[christman]

Your forgiven. I guess my point is.. Its less than 600 bucks...Try it and see if he likes it for that price. If it proves reliable. (regardless of the brand) than keep it and use it forever. Even in SHTF scenarios. Because if it functions no different over large amounts of use, than why not? Cars and guitars are the same. If they run and last as long and if they play and last as long for cheaper, why not? too many fanboys out there that forget some people are shopping for these bargain deals for a reason.

 

[LPMan59]

fair enough. i'll drink to that.

one thing, if it hasnt been said already, is that you'd have to buy a set of sights and/or an optic. something to consider.

 

[christman]

Should I mention that I have an NcStar red dot still on one of my old ak's that has yet to lose its position in over 5,000 rounds? Nahh......! lol.

At least Im a snob on my Ar's. They only get Aimpoints and Eotechs. Mostly because they fit better.

 

[teddy12b]

I've owned 3 DPMS rifles, 2 bushmasters, and 2 colts over the years and loved them all. I mostly shoot at the range and haven't ever hunted with any of my AR's.

There's a difference between a range gun and a bet you life on it gun, in my opinion. At the range all the finer improvements or testing done on the rifle really doesn't matter. Overseas it does. For the range and regular civilian use I don't see anything wrong with a $600 DPMS, but rather than try to get the absolute dirt cheapest gun I can find, I'd be willing to pay just a little more and buy something where the manufacturer wasn't trying to get a product out at the lowest price point and instead wanted to put out a decent gun at a decent price. There's plenty of great options out there between a $600 whatever and a $1300 colt.

Many years ago I bought a D2 Kabar partially serrated with nylon sheath brand new for just shy of $200. A guy asked why I spent so much on a dumbarse knife and I told him it was heading over to the sandbox and I'd need to trust my life to it. I'm damn glad I spent the money on it as it came in handy and I don't regret it one bit. On the other hand, here domestically when I hunt/camp or whatever the knife I use wasn't $50 because I don't need all the refinements or better steel. I look at the DPMS $600 rifle as a fine domestic gun and a great deal, but we got to call it what it is. Nothing wrong with spending more money though on something that's made differently and can be applied differently.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

LOL! [/quote
Does anyone else smell what I do? Yes that's is the smell of BS. Another this is better then that thread. I have shot his Oly and it shot no different or was no less accurate than other makes of M4's I have fired.

 

[Britton]

How about some kind of contest to settle this. I'll supply an OLY M4 and anyone else can supply what they want as far as a gas ran M4 in a reliability and accuracy evaluation. Loser looses his gun to the winner.

Let me add that I will supply the ammunition to any participant at documented dealer cost.

 

[dom1104]

LOL! [/quote
Does anyone else smell what I do? Yes that's is the smell of BS. Another this is better then that thread. I have shot his Oly and it shot no different or was no less accurate than other makes of M4's I have fired.

No BS man. If that Oly works for him, and worked when you shot it, fantastic.

Rock On.

But a Glock is "better" than a Kel Tec, and a Colt is better than a Charles Daly.

Saying all rifles in the world are the same sounds more BS than saying that their are actually companies that do a better job.



Just sayin.

 

[dom1104]

How about some kind of contest to settle this. I'll supply an OLY M4 and anyone else can supply what they want as far as a gas ran M4 in a reliability and accuracy evaluation. Loser looses his gun to the winner.

Let me add that I will supply the ammunition to any participant at documented dealer cost.

THIS!

Awesome idea!

 

[dom1104]

I was thinking, what should happen is, pass around the Colt, then pass around the Oly, to at least 10 other people, each buying their own ammo, or else even at dealer cost, the ammo will get super expensive for a shoot off testing reliability.

It will take a while for something to break.

This sounds like a party tho lol. Awesome idea.

 

[Britton]

It will take a while for something to break.

Would probably know in the first 2K rounds. Oly will smoke any other rifle in the accuracy department due to the stainless steel barrel. But then comes reliability and that would be the hard one. My post sample M4 has now gone through three full auto high round count sessions, each time about 1.5K rounds with no issues at all. But it has not gone past 1.5K without a cleaning.

 

[dom1104]

Right. so figure 800 dollars in ammo for both guns.

Just sayin it will be easier to find 10 people to pony up 80 than 2 guys to pay 400 each.

 

[teddy12b]

Would probably know in the first 2K rounds. Oly will smoke any other rifle in the accuracy department due to the stainless steel barrel. But then comes reliability and that would be the hard one. My post sample M4 has now gone through three full auto high round count sessions, each time about 1.5K rounds with no issues at all. But it has not gone past 1.5K without a cleaning.

That's awesome. Are you talking about the ones that have the 16" bull barrel? I'm just curious how much time goes by on your 1.5K full auto sessions? That's a lot of ammo to dump, but I bet it goes by pretty quick on full auto.

I had a DPMS sweet 16 once that I never should have sold and it was probably my favorite AR I've ever had to date.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

No BS man. If that Oly works for him, and worked when you shot it, fantastic.

Rock On.

But a Glock is "better" than a Kel Tec, and a Colt is better than a Charles Daly.

Saying all rifles in the world are the same sounds more BS than saying that their are actually companies that do a better job.



Just saying.

Better is a matter of preference. The only way to really prove which is better is to conduct a side by side real world comparison. None of the he said she said BS. Run both platforms through the same tests and conditions. Any make of AR can have issues arrive that's the law of mechanics. I saw a couple of Colt's go down when I was in the service. On a side note I will agree that some guns are junk.

 

[billt]

But a Glock is "better" than a Kel Tec, and a Colt is better than a Charles Daly.

You have to understand that ALL AR-15's are the exact same design, (except for the gas piston models.) They are in fact a generic rifle. You can take the bolt carrier group out of a Colt, drop it into a Charles Daly, and it will run. You can't take the slide off a Glock and put it on a Kel-Tec because it won't fit simply because it is a completely different weapon.

Too many overlook this. If you compare a Glock to a Springfield XD you are comparing two completely different pistols. They are both designed totally different. No parts will interchange. With AR-15's all major parts are completely interchangeable. The difference comes down to the construction of the parts. Materials, heat treatment, build tolerances, coatings, etc.

This is where all of the silly B.S. starts, and words get thrown around like "Mil-Spec", "Magnetic Particle Inspected", "High Pressure Tested", etc. Everyone trying to either prove or disprove how this is better than that. Brand "X" is less likely to fail than Brand "Y". Most all of this means little to nothing for 99.99% of the civilian AR-15 owners and shooters out there in gun land. That is a fact.

I hear about these guys who say, "That won't work for me because I use my rifle for FIGHTING!" Really? How many guys did you kill with it last week? It almost becomes laughable. I own a total of 10 AR-15 rifles. Everything from $790.00 Bushmasters, $1,500.00 Colts, and up to $3,000.00 LWRC's. And just about everything in between. Aside from my LWRC gas piston operated rifles, they are all of the same design. And everyone of them load, run, shoot, and function the exact same way. You can't say that about Ford, Chevy, Dodge. Or Milwaukee, DeWalt, Ryobi. All are of totally different designs.

All of you who like to argue about how one make or model of AR-15 is so damn much better than the other are basing your entire argument on how good or bad the parts in it are made. And I'm sorry, you simply do not know that information for a fact. You don't know that Bushmasters quality is "slipping" anymore than you know a bolt carrier group out of a Colt will outlast a DPMS by 2,846 rounds. You're either guessing, or else posting Internet slop. Nothing more. Most of the people who argue about this cannot even explain how a MPI test is done, or what shot peening actually accomplishes. Or what takes place when a certain Mil-Spec is met, or what it means to begin with.

Mil-Spec does not necessarily mean "better", be it in a rifle or a can of paint. The term gets so misleadingly tossed around it has no value in most of these conversations. Especially to the civilian purchaser of an AR-15 rifle who wants to simply have some fun, or grab it if they hear bump in the middle of the night.

These arguments continue mostly without much meaning and or merit. Has anyone here ever been forced to end a life with an AR-15 rifle? I'm willing to bet if you ever have to a properly oiled and cared for DPMS or Bushmaster will save your life every bit as successfully as some MPI, Mil-Spec, HPT, tested 6,000 ways to Sunday, "Top Tier" $4,000.00 AR-15 with enough accessories to launch a Saturn V Rocket, will that hasn't been cleaned in 2,000 rounds. Yet another fact that is always overlooked. What it will all boil down to, if and when the time comes is if you have it pointed where you should, and if you're successful in pulling the trigger before the bad guy does. Everything else is just smoke filled coffee house crap, nothing more. Bill T.