Draco SBR Question

[Jtgarner]

Okay, so like many other people on this site, I have a Draco that I am planning on turning into an SBR. As some of you know, I am pretty set on doing a fixed Collapsible Ar stock (eventually a CTR with a riser). I don't care if you think I should do a folder, I am set on the fixed stock.
So the plan is to do a stock set up similar to this:

My question is; Can I drill and tap the rear trunion, install the Pignose, and put an AR pistol buffer tube on it until I get the paperwork back? (I haven't filed for the stamp yet, I am just trying to figure out what is allowed first)

My first thought would be that I could, because it is not a buttstock (at least its not considered one on an AR).
My second, and more worrisome thought was that it is needed for the function of an AR, so that might be why it is allowed, so therefore it would not be allowed on an AK that doesn't need a buffer tube.
I understand that owning a short AR upper and a complete AR lower can be called "intent," but if you own a full AR and a pistol AR you are G2G so I am also wondering how it would work on this if I had the stock parts (with pistol tube installed) while I waited for the stamp.

Although I am interested in what you guys THINK about this question, I really want to know if anyone KNOWS the answer. (emphasis on the caps )

 

[tradertator]

My understanding is that is a no-no per ATF. If a handgun is modified to accept a stock (even if the stock isn't installed), you have created an SBR. That's why the back of the Draco's are welded or riveted flat. My suggestion is to ere on the side of caution. and wait on your NFA stamp.

 

[Jtgarner]

My understanding is that is a no-no per ATF. If a handgun is modified to accept a stock (even if the stock isn't installed), you have created an SBR. That's why the back of the Draco's are welded or riveted flat. My suggestion is to ere on the side of caution. and wait on your NFA stamp.

Understandable, but... playing the devil's advocate, An AR pistol could accept a stock and that is still classified as a pistol because the buffer tube is a pistol buffer tube. The buffer tube would be attached the same way as an AR buffer tube, it would just serve no purpose. I do realize that because the buffer tube is needed on an AR pistol, that may be the reason it is allowed, but I am just wondering.

Here is a mock up of what I eventually want (plus a krebs safety and a lightning bolt):

And this is a mock up of what I am talking/thinking about doing:

 

[SynnerG]

Jtgarner, what's that muzzle break that you've chosen there?

 

[Jtgarner]

Its the bart break. I ordered it from AIM last night because I liked the way it looked (short) and it is listed as "While Supplies Last." I originally saw it on Shooter1's Draco (and that is where it came from in my mock up pic too).

Here is a link: Bart Brake for AK rifles w/ 14mm Left hand threads

 

[SynnerG]

Its the bart break. I ordered it from AIM last night because I liked the way it looked (short) and it is listed as "While Supplies Last." I originally saw it on Shooter1's Draco (and that is where it came from in my mock up pic too).

Here is a link: Bart Brake for AK rifles w/ 14mm Left hand threads

Thanks for the link. I kinda like that one. I was looking at the M16 cage because it was short and cheap, but I do kinda want an aggressive door breach like muzzle break, but they always seem expensive or are like 4 inches long which goes against the goal of an SBR, heh. I just wonder how well it is at suppressing muzzle flash...

 

[Jtgarner]

Thanks for the link. I kinda like that one. I was looking at the M16 cage because it was short and cheap, but I do kinda want an aggressive door breach like muzzle break, but they always seem expensive or are like 4 inches long which goes against the goal of an SBR, heh. I just wonder how well it is at suppressing muzzle flash...

You could always PM Shooter1. It looks like it would be good for reducing recoil but I don't know about flash.

 

[Shooter1]

Hey guys! well the muzzle flash is still big... But that is different its directed more to the sides of the gun instead of a giant circle. I would describe it as a giant bowtie of fire? Well Recoil I cant speak for because Its still in pistol form. I really love the way it looks on the AK, Its as said aggressive, and looks like it was meant to be .

 

[bigcraig]

Getting back to the original question...............wait for your approved form 1 before doing any work to your Draco. (Well, do any other mods you choose, just not any in regards to the buttstock.)

 

[Jtgarner]

Getting back to the original question...............wait for your approved form 1 before doing any work to your Draco. (Well, do any other mods you choose, just not any in regards to the buttstock.)

Is that "just to be safe?" I am still wondering how it works legally.

 

[tradertator]

Understandable, but... playing the devil's advocate, An AR pistol could accept a stock and that is still classified as a pistol because the buffer tube is a pistol buffer tube. The buffer tube would be attached the same way as an AR buffer tube, it would just serve no purpose. I do realize that because the buffer tube is needed on an AR pistol, that may be the reason it is allowed, but I am just wondering.

Here is a mock up of what I eventually want (plus a krebs safety and a lightning bolt):

And this is a mock up of what I am talking/thinking about doing:

If I understand what your saying, the same logic could be applied to a shotgun being a "short barreled shotgun". Technically all you would have to do is cut the barrel or install a shorter one, but everything is legal until you do such an act.

An AR pistol cannot accept a stock unless you were to disassemble the receiver extension and receiver, and add a rifle type one.

The reason the pistol type AR's are considered a handgun, is because they are designed to not be shouldered, due to the absence of a butt stock or point to attach one.

If the buffer tube you are wanting to add is a pistol type tube, then you would be good to go, since it does not have any points for a stock to be attached to.

Just my , but I'd wait until BATF approval.

 

[Jtgarner]

If I understand what your saying, the same logic could be applied to a shotgun being a "short barreled shotgun". Technically all you would have to do is cut the barrel or install a shorter one, but everything is legal until you do such an act.

An AR pistol cannot accept a stock unless you were to disassemble the receiver extension and receiver, and add a rifle type one.

The reason the pistol type AR's are considered a handgun, is because they are designed to not be shouldered, due to the absence of a butt stock or point to attach one.

If the buffer tube you are wanting to add is a pistol type tube, then you would be good to go, since it does not have any points for a stock to be attached to.

Just my , but I'd wait until BATF approval.

That is what I was thinking. I am going on vacation Saturday, but when I get back I might write the BATF a letter and see what they say while I wait for the money to pay for the stamp. I would think that since it is a pistol tube that does not allow a stock to be attached to it, that I would be good. I just want to make sure that I can get the rear drilled and tapped and ready to go before spending all the money on a stamp and engraving and stuff.

Thanks for the input though. Anyone else have any opinions?

 

[Jtgarner]

Still haven't gotten a straight up response on this yet. Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, anyone have the address/email so I could write the ATF a letter asking them about this?

 

[revsaxon]

Id suggest waiting. One of those better safe than sorry things.

Address is:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA

 

[Jtgarner]

Id suggest waiting. One of those better safe than sorry things.

Address is:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405 USA

1.) thanks for the address
2.) I understand it is better safe than sorry, but if I have a letter in my hand with my name on it that says its okay, I will do it, just while I wait for the stamp to come in. I don't see why I wouldn't be okay if I had a letter saying it was good to go. (I know they have gone back on their word before, but its not like this is the way the gun would stay forever)

 

[DownByTheTracks]

One thing to keep in mInd is that ATF considers an AK with the "third hole" in the receiver to be a machine gun, or at the very least, readily convertible. This applies even when you don't have full auto parts.

The buffer tube on an AR is technically known as "receiver extension" and is most definitely needed for operation on the action.

An AK needs no such receiver extension for necessary function, and since it would just take a few seconds to swap with a rifle tube I can see how an Agent could classify it as readily convertible if you have it drilled and tapped.

I would personally leave it be until the stamp shows up.

 

[Jtgarner]

One thing to keep in mInd is that ATF considers an AK with the "third hole" in the receiver to be a machine gun, or at the very least, readily convertible. This applies even when you don't have full auto parts.

The buffer tube on an AR is technically known as "receiver extension" and is most definitely needed for operation on the action.

An AK needs no such receiver extension for necessary function, and since it would just take a few seconds to swap with a rifle tube I can see how an Agent could classify it as readily convertible if you have it drilled and tapped.

I would personally leave it be until the stamp shows up.

Okay, this is probably the best answer (IMO) so far. I did not know anything about this "third hole" on ak. Drilling and tapping the REAR of the trunion wouldn't effect this would it?
The fact that the "receiver extension" (or buffer tube or whatever) isn't needed on an AK is the main reason I figured it wouldn't be allowed. I may still send a letter to the ATF with some well thought out wording, and see what they say.