Droves of millennial women leaving Republican Party: poll

[jamil]

[Virtual Teal] Because of the limitations of memory and the site search engine, I included the potential mea culpa. There was in fact a great deal of the discussion centered around fungibility and the difficulty of acheiving the narrowly defined purpose of the defunding. If I have undeservedly accused you please accept my apology.

That said, I am quite in agreement with the vision of the founding fathers of states as laboratories of democracy able to be experimental - at their own expense. One of the facts that pulled me into the original discussion was facts that came out of the Orville dam near disaster. It turned out that in the preceding decade the state of California, which was responsible for the dam, spent zero dollars on maintenance while during the same period having spent something like $25 billion on benefits for illegals and thus I supported no federal aid for expenses such asOrrville that they should have taken care of before the needs of illegals. I was of the position that they should either have to reprioritize existing funding or increase taxation to fund such problems rather than receive federal aid due to the problem being caused by their own negligence.

I must leave eave the discussion there temporarily. I would need to switch to a mobile device (in fact I already have) which for me is just an exercise in frustration. But I did wish to proffer the needed apology before signing off [end Virtual Teal]

Like I said to Paul, I think there needs to be a fairly solid sanity boundary around the laboratory. The US was founded on enlightenment principles. I think that makes a solid boundary. The laboratories of democracy should not give any government level the power to oppress people.

 

[indiucky]

The US was founded on enlightenment principles.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Huh? Agnosticism is the viewpoint that the existence of god or some metaphysical realm is unknowable. The people who say they're spiritual but not religious aren't necessarily saying that they think god is unknowable. I mean some could be saying that. I think you could feel like you've had some kind of religious experience and think there may be something beyond the physical world, but don't believe that world is knowable. But here, there's really not enough belief wrapped up into that to make it a practical belief. So that would make them agnostic, but it certainly would not make them religious.

But I don't think that's what people who say they're spiritual but not religious are saying. Because they have beliefs wrapped around their spiritual experience, which, actually makes them"religious", by definition. They just don't like institutional religion.

As an example, I have a niece who says she's not religious. She's spiritual. It's pretty new-age spiritualism. She believes the earth and everything living is all interconnected through a spirit realm which most people can't see, but she can see it. She can feel it. She says it's very real to her. When she told me about it I wondered if her religious experience was watching Avatar under the influence of psychotropic drugs. I don't mean to belittle her beliefs though. I know some people report experiencing those kinds of religious experiences. I mean, hell. Maybe she's right. But I'm certainly not going to adopt that belief without some tangible evidence that it's true.

So anyway, her spiritual knowledge of this other realm informs her beliefs and her behavior towards the earth and people. She's not agnostic at all--she "knows" it. That's actually a religious belief, but she doesn't like the word "religion" because she thinks religion is only institutional. And hers is very individual and personal to her. Ironically, I think if she ran into enough people who've had similar experiences, it's reasonable to imagine that her and others common religious belief could evolve into an institutional religion.

Actually your niece's beliefs aren't unique to her. A similar theme runs through Buddhism, Wicca, Paganism (which is a fairly broad umbrella) and the beliefs of many indigenous peoples.

 

[jamil]

Actually your niece's beliefs aren't unique to her. A similar theme runs through Buddhism, Wicca, Paganism (which is a fairly broad umbrella) and the beliefs of many indigenous peoples.

I know her belief is similar to other such beliefs. And I'm probably not doing it justice. It sounded familiar but yet different. Her descriptions were very detailed and vivid about what this spiritual world looked like. Like I said the closest thing I could relate was the world depicted in Avatar, which sort of animated many of those other beliefs.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I know her belief is similar to other such beliefs. And I'm probably not doing it justice. It sounded familiar but yet different. Her descriptions were very detailed and vivid about what this spiritual world looked like. Like I said the closest thing I could relate was the world depicted in Avatar, which sort of animated many of those other beliefs.

It's an interesting topic, and I don't want to derail the thread, but I do have an anecdotal story that falls within this particular realm of discussion. Back in 2000, I traveled to Australia to meet a woman that I'd only known online. She was very much into spiritualism and even was considered to be a "psychic" for lack of a better term. She was very much in touch with the "unseen" spiritual world. After meeting her, I flew her and her daughter up here and she got to meet my mom, who was 78 at the time and had always been a fairly devout Christian woman, involved in the church, etc.. She liked my friend (Carla) very much and in fact, the following year she (Mom) and a friend traveled to Australia and New Zealand and arranged to meet up with Carla while in Sydney. But I digress...

The story I wanted to relate was that after meeting Carla (and before she traveled to Sydney), my mom called me one afternoon and said she had just woken up from a nap and had a very strange experience. She said that she saw Carla's face right in front of her and she was just beeming. Mom didn't know what to make of it but it made an impression on her.

Figuring out the time difference, I called Carla and asked her what she was doing at about such and such time (same time that Mom saw her smiling face). I didn't tell her why I was asking. Carla said she had just opened a lovely card from my mom and was reading it and smiling. I dunno... make of it what you will, but I just thought it was a good illustration of that "connectedness" that your niece speaks of. I told Mom what Carla said and she had no doubt that "something" had happened at that moment between the two of them.

 

[tmcindy]

Polls said 99% Hillary Clinton victory. lol