Dumb question.

[2A_Tom]

I was asked today by a young fellow, if you leave your gun in the car all day in the summer while at work is there a chance that the heat could cause a round to explode?

My answer was not if the car was parked in Death Valley. An answer of which I am infinity certain.

Now for the dumb question. Our friend Ray taught us that paper combusts at 451F.

At what temperature would a common modern gun powder ignite without primer or contact with flame?

 

[throttletony]

Tagged for interest,
I dont know the answer

 

[Crbn79]

I was asked today by a young fellow, if you leave your gun in the car all day in the summer while at work is there a chance that the heat could cause a round to explode?

My answer was not if the car was parked in Death Valley. An answer of which I am infinity certain.

Now for the dumb question. Our friend Ray taught us that paper combusts at 451F.

At what temperature would a common modern gun powder ignite without primer or contact with flame?

While I was in Iraq the temperature would creep up on 120degrees in the summer, the inside of our vehicles were literally hot enough to burn your skin. The Ammo in there never went off.

If I remember right the ignition temp of a primer is above 400 degrees.

 

[j4jenk]

Not sure of the exact temp, but for compatible purposes there are several videos of AKs getting hot enough to smoke the wood hand guards, but the rounds still don't cook off.

 

[Bennettjh]

A quick Google search led me to sites saying 800-900°F. I don't know how true that is but seen it several different places.

 

[other dave]

Happens all the time. It's called a "Redenbacher Cookoff"

 

[chezuki]

Ammunition is fine. Kydex gear is a different story.

 

[Crbn79]

I dug up a reference to my number, it's an april 10th 2006 issue of shotgun news by Peter Kokalis he states 180-200 C or 356-392 F for most small arms ammo.

 

[Gluemanz28]

This just almost makes me want to microwave some. Just kidding

 

[Dead Duck]

My loaded shotgun and pair of 1911s were left in my car at Lake Havasu when it was 128.
Still shootin.

 

[BuckCreek]

You would probably have to worry about a polymer gun melting before you got it hot enough to bake off a round. Take Glocks for example made of a proprietary form of Nylon-6:
nylon-6 information and properties

Where as it seems ammunition requires much more heat to cook off or go off:
Annotated Mythbusters: Episode 85: Red Rag to a Bull, Hot Bullets, Bull in a China Shop (See the part about the bullets in the oven going off around 500 degrees.)

According to a post on this website: Ammo in a Fire: At What Temperature Will It "Cook Off"? - THR

In his book "Gunshot Wounds" Vincent Di Maio describes various experiments where ammunition was heated in ovens. He says that .22 long rifle cartridges detonate at an average of 275F, .38 Special at 290F and 12 gauge shotgun shells at 387F. The interesting thing about these furnace experiments was that in all instances the cartridge cases ruptured, but the primers did not detonate. In fact the primers were removed from some of the ruptured cases, reloaded into other brass and fired.

When cartridges are placed in a fire he confirms that the most dangerous component of a cartridge is the brass, or fragments thereof that may cause eye injury or penetrate skin, but certainly there is no evidence that a cartridge that is not in a firearm can cause a mortal wound, either by action of the bullet or the brass/primer fragments. It is important to remember however that a chambered cartridge that detonates in a fire is just as dangerous as a cartridge that is fired under normal circumstances in a firearm.


To get a better understanding of the behaviour of free-standing ammunition in a fire, he conducted experiments with a propane torch. A total of 202 cartridges (handgun, centerfire rifle and shotgun cartridges) were used. If the heat was applied directly to the base of a shotgun shell the primer would detonate, the powder would ignite and the shell would rupture. Any pellets that emerged were traveling too slowly to be recorded on a chronograph.


In rifle and handgun cartridges where the flame was applied to the base of the cartridge the primers always detonated but the powder only ignited in half the cases and in those instances the cases did not rupture but the gas was instead vented through the primer hole.


When he heated these same handgun and rifle cartridges at the front, the powder would burn and the cases would usually rupture but with few exceptions the primers did not detonate. The velocity of expelled projectiles ranged from 58 ft/s to 123 ft/s. The only exception was the .270 cartridge where the bullet velocity was 230 ft/s. Primer velocities ranged from 180 ft/s to 830 ft/s.


As a side note he says that a revolver in a fire is especially dangerous because all the cartridges can cook off and be discharged such that there is a danger from projectiles. Only the bullet that came out of the barrel will have rifling marks and the ones that came from non-aligned chambers will have shear marks on them. Obviously if there is a question about the firing of a weapon and whether it was cooked off or fired intentionally they will look for a firing-pin impression on the primer of the suspect cartridge case.


References:


Sciuchetti G.D. Ammunition and fire. American Rifleman 144(3): 36-38, 59-60, March 1996.


Cooking-Off Cartridges. NRA Illustrated Reloading Handbook. Washington, D.C.: The National Rifle Association of America.


And of course Vincent Di Maio's excellent book "Gunshot Wounds - practical aspects of firearms, ballistics and forensic technics". My copy is the second edition, published by CRC Press, ISBN 0-8493-8163-0
This information can be found on pages 268-270.

I could not find much more with the quick search I did. It, however, is probably going to vary based on the propellent used, size and thickness of the case, how fast it is brought up to temperature, etc.

Black Powder is obviously a completely different scenario.

 

[Light]

[video=youtube;zZ7_0U3KIZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ7_0U3KIZE[/video]

 

[Gluemanz28]

Wow that was an interesting watch. Thanks for posting

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Don't have temperatures, but it takes a LOT more than what you can touch without getting burned. You can get an M16 to cook off a round after a session of rapid fire, but dump a 30 rd mag in an AR, you can't touch the barrel but it won't cook off. I saw a video where they had an AK literally on fire; I bet that would do it. If you can survive getting in the vehicle with it, it'll be fine.

 

[throttletony]

awesome info yall. thanks

 

[jotto]

I second this. I never took an exact temperature but I know it was ~120 - 130 degrees F outside and the inside of the vehicle added at least 20-30 degrees to that. We carried everything from 9mm to 120mm without anything cooking off. I'm safe in thinking the person would die before the ammo would cook off.

While I was in Iraq the temperature would creep up on 120degrees in the summer, the inside of our vehicles were literally hot enough to burn your skin. The Ammo in there never went off.

If I remember right the ignition temp of a primer is above 400 degrees.

 

[Mark 1911]

[video=youtube;zZ7_0U3KIZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ7_0U3KIZE[/video]

When it comes to proper Glock handling technique, it doesn't get any better than this!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Cooking temperatures will set it off, depends on the primer of course but 300 will set it off.

Every now and then a jackleg will leave a pistol in the oven and it will fire and put a bullet in a kid. IIRC the last one in Indiana was up in Mishawaka.

Firefighters get hit from time to time when people leave loaded guns around and fire breaks out. Cherokee Tribune - Burning gun misfires wounds deputy

Google "oven gun" and something will kick up. Here's one in Florida. Banjo music is mandatory for reading this: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...hot-by-oven-while-trying-to-cook-waffles?lite

 

[IndyGlockMan]

No worries. If they don't have problems with it in Iraq, then I think your friend will be just fine.
Crack the window a little if he's really worried about it.
Just don't keep Kydex holsters where it can get too hot.

I like the microwave video.
He just needs to get a new frame assy and he's back in business.
That Glock slide and barrel will be just fine.
Probably needs sights and the plastic parts around the firing pin assy, but that's probably it.

 

[2A_Tom]

I know about cook offs. That is why we change barrels on M60's. Now I'm dating myself.

Thanks for the input. I texted the link to my friend.

BTW he carries a block. LOL