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Duty to Inform
- Thread starter Tay
- Start date
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IN_Sheepdog
Expert
gosh... I must have gone to the wrong law school.... The emphasis I put on this was the DUTY to inform, not whether you had other options... Refusing to answer, or being an asshat is well within your rights, but you better be able to explain AND document why you are doing so. Pushing back, usually gets responded with a push back from the other side (newton's third law of legal physics...
. )its kind of like the whole "am I being detained" discussion. If he goes back to the car and reads a magazine for twenty minutes while you sit in your car stewing in your juices, while he is "waiting for the check of registration to come back" it's your time to sit. Too bad....
Perhaps i I have been an arbitrator for too long as what I usually see is when one side sets their heels, the other becomes equally obstinate... And it doesn't end well for either. Yes by all means know and protect your rights, but if you are looking to pick a fight with an "ignorant cop". Over your constitutional rights, You will likely get one, even if passive aggressively.
lastly (To Sparks...) There are VERY few Absolutes in life and this is especially true in regard to the law. Rarely is someone "absolutely wrong" .... American Law is still an ongoing evolving process, and often subject to interpretation and circumstances...
(Example of Barnes decision and the 4th Amendment last year and the resulting subsequent legislation, immediately comes to mind...)
gosh... I must have gone to the wrong law school.... The emphasis I put on this was the DUTY to inform, not whether you had other options... Refusing to answer, or being an asshat is well within your rights, but you better be able to explain AND document why you are doing so. Pushing back, usually gets responded with a push back from the other side (newton's third law of legal physics...
its kind of like the whole "am I being detained" discussion. If he goes back to the car and reads a magazine for twenty minutes while you sit in your car stewing in your juices, while he is "waiting for the check of registration to come back" it's your time to sit. Too bad....
Perhaps i I have been an arbitrator for too long as what I usually see is when one side sets their heels, the other becomes equally obstinate... And it doesn't end well for either. Yes by all means know and protect your rights, but if you are looking to pick a fight with an "ignorant cop". Over your constitutional rights, You will likely get one, even if passive aggressively.
lastly (To Sparks...) There are VERY few Absolutes in life and this is especially true in regard to the law. Rarely is someone "absolutely wrong" .... American Law is still an ongoing evolving process, and often subject to interpretation and circumstances...
(Example of Barnes decision and the 4th Amendment last year and the resulting subsequent legislation, immediately comes to mind...)
Just so we are clear, if during a normal traffic violation stop (which was not the case in the OP), you are stating that if asked if about a firearm, you are required by law to answer truthfully?
IANAL, but my understanding is that you do not HAVE to answer at all, but if you do, it needs to be truthfully. Some choose to answer the question with vagueness such as "I have nothing illegal in the car".
Does that response actually work? It's not like cops are dumb and can't figure out what you mean.
Frank_N_Stein
Grandmaster
The only statute I know of that deals with lying to the police is when one refuses to identify themselves when stopped for an infraction or ordinance violation. You have to provide your correct identifiers. Other than that, you can lie all you want.
Frank_N_Stein
Grandmaster
What do you mean?
I mean that saying, "I have nothing illegal," will likely just inspire more questions until you tell the truth. What's the point?
You are right. But what that person said was dead wrong and a rare exception. To refresh what that response was to: the person was claiming that you do have a duty in Indiana to inform if the officer asks you if you have a gun. That is absolutely wrong. Below in blue is the exact statement I was responding to:
1. Indiana has no DUTY to inform... However if you are ASKED by the LEO, ie... are you armed? ... you are then required to inform them of same and present the License...
That response more or less lets them know but it takes away their ability to have you hand it over. If you admit to it you might be giving up your right to keep it from the officer without a warranted search.
Doesn't matter. You have the option to continue to answer that way or simply take the 5th.
Not sure why you guys think it is best to give up a right just to please an officer and make the stop go smoother. You should NEVER take the approach of solely doing whatever you can to please an officer during an encounter with them. If you do I just hope you do not end up in cuffs.
I'll say it again: When you are pulled over by the police they are not your friend. They are not there to help you. You need to protect yourself and admitting you have a weapon, even if you believe you are fully within the law, is just opening the door for him to find something you may not be aware of to charge you with. Comply with what you must (legally). Keep quiet on the rest.
I don't care if he asks me if I have bubble gum, a potato, an extra pair of shoes, or a gun in my car. A cop is not going to get an answer to any question like that. In addition, it is none of his business to begin with. Nor will I answer where I am going or where I am coming from. Especially where I have been since I do not know if they might be looking for someone around the area where I just was and start believing it was me who did something.
May I **** off the officer? Possibly. Will the stop take longer? Possibly. Do I care? Nope.
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As others and myself have said already. It is most likely not illegal (only reason I wont say with certainty is because IANAL).
It is never a good idea to lie to police though (illegal or not). It is just shaky ground and you might trip into a charge. Luckily in America we have the 5th which, so far, allows us to avoid providing a truthful answer without lying. The best course of action is not to talk at all to cops if not required.
No idea. I've never been asked if I had a firearm in the car. If I was asked, I'd just answer the question.
I guess I'm just not one to search out confrontations for the sole reason of posting them on INGO.No idea. I've never been asked if I had a firearm in the car. If I was asked, I'd just answer the question.
To me I would inform the officer that I am exercising my 5th adm. right and not answering. I would not be doing so to "search out [a] confrontation". I would be doing so to protect myself by not providing more information to an officer than I am required to that could land me a charge from something I am unaware of.
Your approach to that situation, chezuki, is why many people land in jail. Would you also submit to a search just to avoid a confrontation if the officer thinks you have something else in the car? Same principle, and just as dangerous to your freedom.
Many people today will submit to their cars being searched just to please an officer and avoid a possible confrontation. Many of them will spend the night regretting that choice inside their cold jail cell. Others will be doing the same because they told an officer they had a gun when they did not have to (again, thinking they were all good legally).
Google how many felonies the average person commits without knowing it. Then I hope you reconsider and realize that you should take every step, no matter how small, in protecting yourself during an encounter with police. Even if that little thing is as simple as not answering if you have a gun or not on you.
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I find being a law abiding citizen with nothing to hide is pretty effective in keeping me out of jail. YMMV.
It is forfeiting a right if you consent (That is why they need you to consent!!!). You give up your 4th. Why in the world would you want to take that chance? How do you know someone else didn't forget something in your car in the past. Or if your car is used the previous owner forgot about a stash of weed between the seats or in other hiding spots that drug dealers use that you would never check but a cop would? Yes, most people will walk away clear. But you just never know, even if you think you do. Remember, you are responsible for everything in your car.
Again, many people will consent to car searches today believing they have nothing to hide. Some of them will be sleeping in their local county jail.
That is exactly what forfeiting a right is.
What if he finds something you don't know about? What if he thinks he found something? Why would you take a chance?
Obviously you did not take my suggestion and google how many felonies people commit without knowing it. No one is truly a 100% law abiding citizen and if you dig deep enough you can find a felony for anyone. Nor do you know every law, not even lawyers do. Again, you are just taking a risk of "tripping" into a charge. YM[WILL]V
