Early 1911

[TheBoss930]

Hey guys, Im looking to trade my M1 carbine to a gentleman that owns the 1911 you see below. the date puts it right around 1913, but Im having a hard time confirming its authenticity. He says its never been refinished?? he's only asking $1500 so Im trying to find out if its real?? thanks guys!!

 

[Compatriot G]

While I'm no expert on 1911's, I'm pretty sure the pre-WWI pistols were blued, not parkerized.

 

[Ronn38]

Nor am I an expert, but this might help...

Types of Finishes found on 1911/1911A1s:
(Serial number ranges are approximant)
Colt 1 to 2400: Bright furnace blued, Slide and receiver highly polished. Certain small parts have a high polished bright Fire blued (Cobalt Color) appearance. "Oil Finish" Yet some seemingly original pistols within the serial range have the later duller finish. These pistols might have been held back to perform some remedial rework and by the time the rework was completed, the acceptable finish had changed to the duller finish and they then got the later finish.
Colt serial #2401 to about serial #160,000: Fine brushed looking Finish, furnace blued. Small parts have a smoky blue finish that appears lighter than the color of the slide and receiver.
Colt serial #160,000 to about serial #400,000: Colt brushed blue finish, Coarser girt size on close inspection. small parts have a blued finish that appears to match the slide and frame on near new pistols.
Colt serial #400,000 to end of WWI: Very coarse blued finish causes pistols to almost appear black. These pistols are referred to as the "Black Colt" or "Black Armys". This was due to changes implemented to speed production and reduce cost. Among those was the elimination of the fine polishing step.

From http://www.coolgunsite.com/

 

[Max Volume]

Nothing against those here but for old 1911's this place has some extreme experts. 1911forum.com. They would want to see close ups of the slide lock, hammer spur, barrel markings, etc. It is an entirely different world dealing with the very old 1911's and the originality of such parts depends on the serrations and markings on those parts.

 

[rob63]

There is absolutely no question whatsoever about it, that gun has been refinished. I would even go so far as to say it probably wasn't even refinished by the military, they usually did a better job.

Here is a photo of my Colt 1911 that was refinished at Springfield Armory sometime between the wars. You can see that even though it was refinished, the markings are considerably clearer than the ones on the gun you posted and the finish is far superior to it.



Here is an example of a Model 1917 rifle that was refinished at a military facility. Again, note that even though it was refinished it still has clear markings and a nice finish.



Finally, an example of a Model 1903 that was also refinished while still with the military. It was hit with the sandblaster a bit harder than what the other ones were, but even here it still isn't as bad as the op pistol.

 

[88E30M50]

I'm thinking that it's been refinished too. I've never seen an original finish 1911 with that course blasted surface. There are a couple of dings by the serial number that have been finished over. The grips are wrong too it looks like.

Here's a shot of a WWII vintage Colt I have. As worn as it is, the roll marks are still very sharp. I think the gun above has been heavily bead blasted, then refinished.

 

[TheBoss930]

Thanks guys! I think I might hold off on it. Thanks for all of the replys!!

 

[IndyGlockMan]

If it's too good to be true, it usually is.... and it definitely is this time.
It's been refinished for sure.
The guy selling it probably got it that way and thinks it's never been refinished because he doesn't know any better, or he's dishonest and know's exactly what he has and is trying to get rid of it.

 

[PGRChaplain]

Looks as if was Sand Blasted, Glass Beads would leave a finer finish. The coarse finish carries down into all the Factory Markings........ Whoever did that needs Throat Punched! That's like Painting a Corvette with a Roller.......

 

[Leadeye]

Here's an old Colt from 1914 only a year younger.

 

[TheBoss930]

Leadeye, and 88m30e50, thanks for the reference pictures!!

also, nice 1911's!!

 

[OVERTHEHILLGUY]

This pistol was not refinished at a u.s. armory.
this pistol was shot blasted with small steel pellets to remove huge amounts of rust and pitting.
Of course this is only my thoughts.
JT

 

[PGRChaplain]

This pistol was not refinished at a u.s. armory.
this pistol was shot blasted with small steel pellets to remove huge amounts of rust and pitting.
Of course this is only my thoughts.

I think you may have the correct answer!

 

[88E30M50]

If that's true, then it's a real shame they screwed it up. Sometimes, a little patina adds to the pistol. The one below looks perfect to me just as it is. It has that 'been there, done that' look and will most likely stay in the collection because of the patina, not despite it.

 

[churchmouse]

This pistol was not refinished at a u.s. armory.
this pistol was shot blasted with small steel pellets to remove huge amounts of rust and pitting.
Of course this is only my thoughts.
JT

You are most likely correct as I was thinking the same thing.
A good sand blaster will accomplish the same thing.

 

[citizenkane]

He was running that thing on armslist forever.
Repo grips and it's been heavily reparked.

He used to have it listed for some asinine amount like $6000 or something.

 

[Magnum314]

There is absolutely no question whatsoever about it, that gun has been refinished.

100% agree! If they are dishonest about any part of the transaction...they are likely dishonest about more. Pass.

 

[indyjohn]

He was running that thing on armslist forever.
Repo grips and it's been heavily reparked.

He used to have it listed for some asinine amount like $6000 or something.

Eventually he will find a dupe. Thankfully, not this time.

 

[TheBoss930]

Thanks guys!! Personally, id prefer it with a little rust on it, and in original condition. instead of trying to hide it.

Does the saying "Take her swimming on the first date" apply here? Haha