Educate me on charging Li-Ion batteries.

[looney2ns]

I've accumulated a variety of micro usb chargers over the years.
We now have a couple of Kindles and smartphones.
My phone came with a 1.8 amp charger.
My wifes phone came with a 800ma charger.

The Kindles came with 1 amp chargers.

So, the question is, if we use chargers of different amp ratings then what the product came with, are we shortening the life of the batteries?

What about the aftermarket chargers that use the ISmart charging system, which supposedly adjust's to the proper charge rate depending on what you have connected it to? Good, bad?

What about the so called Rapid Chargers that output as much as 2.4amps?

Dazed and confused.

 

[K_W]

The vast majority of devices have charging circuitry that will only draw as much power as they are capable of handling.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

If your charger is rated for less current than the one that came with the device, it will at worst charge slower, maybe so slowly it can't even keep up with the device, but it won't damage anything. If it is rated for more, the device will draw only what it needs, as K_W says they have charging circuitry to control it.

 

[shibumiseeker]

In general to make LiIon cells last the longest, keep them between about 30% and 70% state of charge, only charging them up fully when you need the capacity or to reset the battery power algorithms the equipment uses to tell you how much power is left. Further, fast charging elevates cell temperature further shortening life. Fast charging should be reserved for when it is needed, not as a matter of course. Items like phones and tablets have charging algorithms that maximize charging speed, not necessarily overall life. While they will limit dangerously hot temperatures, they will allow the cell to become warmer than is optimal for that overall life.

 

[1911ly]

Always mark the chargers to go with the device. They can be different between devices. Some battery's have the charging circuitry in them others have it in the charger. Never mix the chargers!

Also, never buy non UL listed battery's or chargers. Cheap Ebay battery's are a accident waiting to happen. I am in the electronics industry. I have experience. I have seen the battery's explode. I've seen the aftermath. I have has 2 blow on me. Both non UL.

Just my from an electronics educated view point.

 

[looney2ns]

Thanks all.

 

[jkaetz]

Always mark the chargers to go with the device. They can be different between devices. Some battery's have the charging circuitry in them others have it in the charger. Never mix the chargers!

Also, never buy non UL listed battery's or chargers. Cheap Ebay battery's are a accident waiting to happen. I am in the electronics industry. I have experience. I have seen the battery's explode. I've seen the aftermath. I have has 2 blow on me. Both non UL.

Just my from an electronics educated view point.

What modern device does not have the charge logic in the device? 99% of micro usb chargers are simply a power source with some resistors to tell the device how much amperage they can provide.

OP You can use any charger with any device. Some will charge a device faster, but you will do no damage to the devices or batteries. Similarly, you could buy one of the multi port chargers from amazon and save yourself some outlet space.

 

[1911ly]

What modern device does not have the charge logic in the device? 99% of micro usb chargers are simply a power source with some resistors to tell the device how much amperage they can provide.

OP You can use any charger with any device. Some will charge a device faster, but you will do no damage to the devices or batteries. Similarly, you could buy one of the multi port chargers from amazon and save yourself some outlet space.

Well, not meaning to **** you off but, I call BS! I am in the electronics industry. I've done repairs on equipment and design of equipment for the last 35 years. I've done consumer electronics repairs as well as industrial repairs. So I'm not an idiot (I'm not implying you said i was). But I know more about this then the average Joe.

A Lithium battery is controlled by current regulation. Different current battery's take different current chargers. There is no fast or slow charging by swapping chargers. It's nothing like the NMH or Nicad battery's of a few years ago where we used to just use a dropping resistor to control the currant. This is where the biggest difference is.

Some of the new battery's have the controller circuit in the battery itself. As an example take a new drill's lithium battery apart and you will see that most have a circuit board with the circuitry on board the battery. But not all battery's are like that. That is why you keep your chargers with your devices. Just because the plug fits doesn't mean it's the correct charger. The charge rate (or current)on a Lithium battery varies as the battery charges. They love to explode when they get over charged or rapidly charged. Search Youtube. There are many many battery failure videos.

Cell phone chargers are some what universal but I can tell you I have taken many a failed charger apart to find there was no regulation circuity. Customers complains are usually "the battery got hot and the charger failed" and "I just bought a new charger". I ask where did you get it? They say "Ebay". Case closed, you are an idiot for not buying the correct charger is my usual answer. Yeah, I get a bit hardened from customers not listening. I have a lot of stories i could tell.

Here is another recent example. I needed a 12v battery pack for a piece of equipment I build. I wanted it to be rechargeable. I ordered a Lithium rechargeable battery and the "supposed" matching charger. I charged it up. I felt the battery after about 5 minutes of charging. It was so hot I could barely touch it. I took the battery apart. There was no thermal shut off or even a fuse or over current reset circuit in the battery. So I pried the charger open and what to I fine? A transformer, bridge rectifier and a cap. No control circuitry. So there is a modern device with no control circuitry. A piece of crap that could have exploded on me. It was commercially made too. But to my own fault I bought it on Ebay. So I'm the dumb ass on that one.

Please research lithium battery charger design before you make a broad statement. Using any charger with any device is not correct. You are misleading the OP. And totally uninformed on such matters.

I am not open for debate on this. I know what I am doing on this matter. So that's my educated opinion. Use it if you like. Or ignore it. But I can not let your comment pass without a informed comment from me.

End of it...

 

[jkaetz]

Well, not meaning to **** you off but, I call BS! I am in the electronics industry. I've done repairs on equipment and design of equipment for the last 35 years. I've done consumer electronics repairs as well as industrial repairs. So I'm not an idiot (I'm not implying you said i was). But I know more about this then the average Joe.

A Lithium battery is controlled by current regulation. Different current battery's take different current chargers. There is no fast or slow charging by swapping chargers. It's nothing like the NMH or Nicad battery's of a few years ago where we used to just use a dropping resistor to control the currant. This is where the biggest difference is.

Some of the new battery's have the controller circuit in the battery itself. As an example take a new drill's lithium battery apart and you will see that most have a circuit board with the circuitry on board the battery. But not all battery's are like that. That is why you keep your chargers with your devices. Just because the plug fits doesn't mean it's the correct charger. The charge rate (or current)on a Lithium battery varies as the battery charges. They love to explode when they get over charged or rapidly charged. Search Youtube. There are many many battery failure videos.

Cell phone chargers are some what universal but I can tell you I have taken many a failed charger apart to find there was no regulation circuity. Customers complains are usually "the battery got hot and the charger failed" and "I just bought a new charger". I ask where did you get it? They say "Ebay". Case closed, you are an idiot for not buying the correct charger is my usual answer. Yeah, I get a bit hardened from customers not listening. I have a lot of stories i could tell.

Here is another recent example. I needed a 12v battery pack for a piece of equipment I build. I wanted it to be rechargeable. I ordered a Lithium rechargeable battery and the "supposed" matching charger. I charged it up. I felt the battery after about 5 minutes of charging. It was so hot I could barely touch it. I took the battery apart. There was no thermal shut off or even a fuse or over current reset circuit in the battery. So I pried the charger open and what to I fine? A transformer, bridge rectifier and a cap. No control circuitry. So there is a modern device with no control circuitry. A piece of crap that could have exploded on me. It was commercially made too. But to my own fault I bought it on Ebay. So I'm the dumb ass on that one.

Please research lithium battery charger design before you make a broad statement. Using any charger with any device is not correct. You are misleading the OP. And totally uninformed on such matters.

I am not open for debate on this. I know what I am doing on this matter. So that's my educated opinion. Use it if you like. Or ignore it. But I can not let your comment pass without a informed comment from me.

End of it...

No need to worry about my feelings, you clearly have your views based on experience, but I felt the advice of keeping every micro usb charger that comes with every current cell phone/tablet/mp3 player was a bit excessive. Perhaps I should have narrowed my response to be USB charged devices with single cell lithium based batteries like the OP was talking about. Those devices use the USB charging specification and take care of the charge logic on the device side to prevent exactly the scenario that you are describing (a spectacular flaming death).

I too am familiar with lithium ion and polymer batteries and how they must be charged to prevent fires. I also have researched the USB charging specification in addition to modifying chargers that did not follow the specification. The USB charging specification is for +5 volts and .5 amps for a PC USB port up to 2.4 amps for a dedicated charger. The devices determine what amperage to draw by checking the data pins for various resistances. This is the part that varies by device manufacturer and why you will sometimes see a device charge faster or slower if you mix and match chargers with devices. In short, all micro usb chargers from a reputable manufacturer will be interchangeable but charge times may vary. All bets are off if the charger is a 50 cent charger from ebay of course.


In regards to charging other lithium battery based devices then I'm in agreement, you should certainly keep the charger that came with the device. Lithium based batteries are not to be overcharged as the manufacturers of hoverboards are discovering. I would guess their charge logic doesn't keep the cells balanced which could allow some to under charge and others to overcharge causing the fires.