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Electricity generation
- Thread starter bobzilla
- Start date
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What tree line?
To us, yes. Long term, we're not moving in less than 20 years. We are total electric here and because of the wind and ice we get little outages all the time. Add in that our electric rate jumped 30% in January, the oil issue and raising rates of all utilities and we're ready to become a little more self sufficient.
We're in the same boat as you. All electric with no gas service available. I could bring in propane but chose not too. Last year I looked really hard at the turbines on the market as well as the solar options. I even went to our local REMC to speak with the engineering staff to see what it is that they have seen in our county, the good and the bad.
Our county has 2 test beds that the public can look at for data, they have a wind turbine and a solar array. Both systems have their output in the public domain so one can do a little bit of datamining to see what works better over a year/month/day time period.
Within 2 minutes of comparing the wind turbine to the solar array, its very obvious that solar power is the winner. Even on a BAD day, the solar array beats the wind turbine.
So, with that, I looked far and wide for solar panels and wind turbines and to me, I didn't care where they were made. I just cared that they had the technology built into them that I was looking for and that they were not going to cost and arm and a leg. As a data point, 90% of the wind turbines that one finds on the market are made in China. I know many don't want to deal with Chinese products, but if I can get a 5KW wind turbine from China for $6500 and the same one from Germany costs me $15000........its up to you and what you want.
Solar is expensive...period. Prices are coming down though. You can now get panels at around $.80 per watt, that's down from $1.20 per watt.
When you build a system too, there are 3 types to consider.
Off grid - meaning all of your generated power is stored in batteries for use when the grid is down.
On-grid - meaning that your generated power ties directly into your power meter, driving it backwards at high generation periods (to tie in directly with my REMC costs $5 per month to do so). This method will have the power company giving you credit for the extra power you create - they pay you.
Hybrid system - a combination of the above.
Also, you need to consider all of the other parts of the systems when planning it out. It's just not a turbine or solar panels. You will need invertors, batteries, dump loads, turbine/solar controllers, tower, etc.
A person can do it, just not cheaply - yet.
Oh - some of the systems on eBay - I'd be careful there. Many of them are just automobile alternators with a flange for PVC blades. Yeah, they will make power, but in the end, they were made for cars and trucks and not for sitting on a tower exposed to the elements generating power for a house.
Our county has 2 test beds that the public can look at for data, they have a wind turbine and a solar array. Both systems have their output in the public domain so one can do a little bit of datamining to see what works better over a year/month/day time period.
Within 2 minutes of comparing the wind turbine to the solar array, its very obvious that solar power is the winner. Even on a BAD day, the solar array beats the wind turbine.
So, with that, I looked far and wide for solar panels and wind turbines and to me, I didn't care where they were made. I just cared that they had the technology built into them that I was looking for and that they were not going to cost and arm and a leg. As a data point, 90% of the wind turbines that one finds on the market are made in China. I know many don't want to deal with Chinese products, but if I can get a 5KW wind turbine from China for $6500 and the same one from Germany costs me $15000........its up to you and what you want.
Solar is expensive...period. Prices are coming down though. You can now get panels at around $.80 per watt, that's down from $1.20 per watt.
When you build a system too, there are 3 types to consider.
Off grid - meaning all of your generated power is stored in batteries for use when the grid is down.
On-grid - meaning that your generated power ties directly into your power meter, driving it backwards at high generation periods (to tie in directly with my REMC costs $5 per month to do so). This method will have the power company giving you credit for the extra power you create - they pay you.
Hybrid system - a combination of the above.
Also, you need to consider all of the other parts of the systems when planning it out. It's just not a turbine or solar panels. You will need invertors, batteries, dump loads, turbine/solar controllers, tower, etc.
A person can do it, just not cheaply - yet.
Oh - some of the systems on eBay - I'd be careful there. Many of them are just automobile alternators with a flange for PVC blades. Yeah, they will make power, but in the end, they were made for cars and trucks and not for sitting on a tower exposed to the elements generating power for a house.
Study up the wind density or average wind speeds for your area. Where I live wind is a daily thing. Past 4 days we have had constant winds 20 to 40mph. Here the vertical turbines are popping up more, low to the ground off the lake shore, but the classic's are out in the cornfields up on high towers. Once I build my new place I am putting in a wind turbine of some kind.
Wind Powering America: U.S. Wind Resource Map
(click on your State on the map)
Guide to Tribal Energy Development: Wind Turbines
Wind Powering America: U.S. Wind Resource Map
(click on your State on the map)
Guide to Tribal Energy Development: Wind Turbines
Watching for for feedback. I've done some preliminary calculations and they just never seemed to make financial sense, so I've never gone any deeper.
You need to take into consideration the cost of maintenance for wind turbines. They are a mechanical device with moving parts that will experience wear and tear...also consider how you will mount the turbine and access it. Wind is a no-go here in Southern IN. Just not worth it...Solar is the cheapest its been in a while and I would encourage you to start there if you are a newcomer to alternative power.
Yes, our average wind density is just under 15mph. We would need to use a VAWG otherwise it would be shut down most of the time as we see n constant winds over 40, and gusts as high as 80 in the spring.
For us, it looks like we would pay for the system (installed price) in about 11 years. But during that time we would have electricity while the power is out to our neighbors, not getting socked with higher and higher electricity costs.
For us, it looks like we would pay for the system (installed price) in about 11 years. But during that time we would have electricity while the power is out to our neighbors, not getting socked with higher and higher electricity costs.
The nearest treeline to us is ~ 4 miles west. Even then it's pretty thin. It's plat and we're at the peak of a "hill"... ok, not really a hill in the traditional sense, but up here in the "flatlands" anything that is higher than the fglood waters is a hill. Solar is extremely expensive, and wind is plentiful.
shibumiseeker
Grandmaster
No, solar is not extremely expensive, and once installed has very low operating costs. It may be more expensive for your site than wind, but generally will be within a factor of 1.5 or so. That you have a good wind gradient to tap into is a plus for you, and solar may not fit your needs for a variety of reasons, but "extremely expensive" is not one of them.
I've been generating my own power for two decades plus now and the cost for solar has gone down from the $5-6 a watt in 1989 dollars when I first installed my first panels to the last time I bought panels 6 months ago I paid $1.36 a watt in 2011 dollars to my door. In that time period the cost for wind generation equipment has stayed roughly the same in actual dollars, although it's gotten cheaper in adjusted dollars.
Unless you are going to scale up into the megawatt range, the installed costs and operating costs for wind are higher than you might think, even on a good site.
Worth a look
Copied from a post on another forum. This guy is in Massachusetts. It's not wind but it might be worth looking at.
"I had the folks from Solar City do an audit this morning. I signed all the paperwork to have a 7.3Kv system installed on the rear roof of my house.
It's a lease deal. Zero down, and zero a month with my electric bill going from an average of $157 per month to $66 per month.
Solar City collects all the rebates, energy tax credits and all excess electricity that back feeds my meter. This is how they offset the $20K installation cost.
They maintain everything for 20 years."
Copied from a post on another forum. This guy is in Massachusetts. It's not wind but it might be worth looking at.
"I had the folks from Solar City do an audit this morning. I signed all the paperwork to have a 7.3Kv system installed on the rear roof of my house.
It's a lease deal. Zero down, and zero a month with my electric bill going from an average of $157 per month to $66 per month.
Solar City collects all the rebates, energy tax credits and all excess electricity that back feeds my meter. This is how they offset the $20K installation cost.
They maintain everything for 20 years."
What is your generating capacity, if you don't mind me asking?
shibumiseeker
Grandmaster
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/184608-off_grid_humor.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/77566-solar_generator_vs_solar_system_with_invertor.html
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/137880-solar_panels.html
I already got a quote for solar to produce the equivalent to a 5.5Kwh wind generator and was quoted $86k installed. I'm looking at $19k installed on the wind. I don't know about you, but 400+% difference is what I call "Extremely expensive".
I was looking into it once and I was told the first thing you have to do is get your usage down as low as possible. That is where we are at. Our winter using is real high and I need to bring that down.
Wind is my first choice as we have a lot of it. I also do not have any good south facing roofs for panels at the moment. Eventually I would like to have wind and solar combo.
Wind is my first choice as we have a lot of it. I also do not have any good south facing roofs for panels at the moment. Eventually I would like to have wind and solar combo.
