Electronic earmuffs for home defense

[esrice]

Anyone want to speculate on potential legal issues with using muffs in a home-defense type situation? Could a case be made that the homeowner had predetermined to shoot someone, as shown by the fact that they took the time to don earpro?

Sounds flaky to me, but I've heard it argued before. Just curious what INGOers would have to say.

 

[pudly]

Ummm... I think that fact that you grabbed a gun is much more indicative that you are willing to shoot someone.

 

[Wild Deuce]

Ummm... I think that fact that you grabbed a gun is much more indicative that you are willing to shoot someone.

+1

Common sense folks ... if someone is coming through your front door in the middle of the day, jumps out from around a corner in the hall or is kicking in your bedroom door in the middle of the night ... duh! Grab your gun and get the job done.

If, however, you hear a bump in the night that wakes you up and you need to go investigate ... grab your gear off the nightstand (light, gun and muffs) and check it out. This is where I see electronic muffs having their place in a home defense repertoire. Of course, just like everything else in that repertoire, training will be required.

Auditory Exclusion is a fact. However, it does not prevent hearing loss. AE only involves the brain refusing to process superflous data not pertinent to immediate mitigation of the threat. The hearing damage will still occur regardless of whether the brain heard any noise or not.

 

[col132]

I have read articles in the past about this phenomenon. I believe it is called auditory exclusion. From the articles I have read, most people don't remember hearing the gunshots while they are in a real shooting situation. Some people can only remember hearing hearing a mild "pop". From my own experience when my mother was murdered in front of me, I cannot remember hearing any of the gunshots. My mother fired several rounds of .22 short and her murderer fired 6 rounds of .38 special. This happened 40 years ago when I was 3 1/2 years old. I can remember everything else about the incident, even some of the things I was thinking, but I cannot remember hearing any gunshots.

I'm not sure what else needs to be said here. This incident parallels almost everything I have ever heard from a shooting victim, participant, or witness. Thinking you would put on a pair of electronic earmuffs prior to investigating for a possible home intruder/burglar borders on the ridiculous.
There are enough things to be concerned with in this situation and not your artificially amplified auditory sense.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Anyone want to speculate on potential legal issues with using muffs in a home-defense type situation? Could a case be made that the homeowner had predetermined to shoot someone, as shown by the fact that they took the time to don earpro?

Inside your home, likely a non-issue.

In the parking lot at Lowe's or at the mall, more likely an issue.

 

[ghille45]

haha, I had some MSA's that were awesome, pretty low profile too, and who knows how much time you have, but if you do and have the presence of mind to throw em on, it wouldn't hurt.

 

[grimor]

Auditory Exclusion is a fact. However, it does not prevent hearing loss. AE only involves the brain refusing to process superfluous data not pertinent to immediate mitigation of the threat. The hearing damage will still occur regardless of whether the brain heard any noise or not.

I'm not sure what else needs to be said here. This incident parallels almost everything I have ever heard from a shooting victim, participant, or witness. Thinking you would put on a pair of electronic earmuffs prior to investigating for a possible home intruder/burglar borders on the ridiculous.

a blown eardrum from shooting in a small area might not bother you while the adrenalin is pumping but you'll notice it the rest of your life..

 

[Wild Deuce]

... Thinking you would put on a pair of electronic earmuffs prior to investigating for a possible home intruder/burglar borders on the ridiculous.

There are enough things to be concerned with in this situation and not your artificially amplified auditory sense.

If that is your standard for ridiculous then we plead guilty. The wife and I keep hearing protection (along with a light, gun and cell phone) on the nightstand. One man's ridiculous is another man's common sense.

I've put on hearing protection to check on a noise in the middle of the night on at least two occasions in the past ten years. No one has suggested hitting the "pause button" while you gear up in the middle of a violent home invasion. It is, however, a reasonable option when you don't know what it is you just heard go bump in the night and you have time.

BTW, the "artificially amplified auditory sense" is a complimentary benefit and not the primary goal. Prevention of hearing loss is the primary goal.

 

[jedi]

--From the DA--
Jury, Let me tell you a story. The OP may claim this shooting was in self defense. But the fact of the matter is that it was not. It was planned and calculated. The OP woke up startled to a noise, but before calling 9-1-1 for help, before just listening to hear if it was the wind or a stray animal, the OP grabbed his gun and even had time to put on electronic earmuffs before going looking for trouble. Would a scared for their life person have time to grab and put on their electronic earmuffs?

---
I do like the idea of them especially if you have to use a shotgun inside the house. The above while fictional I'm sure is a case that can be made against you for using them. Heck I'm sure if you use reloaded ammo, a gun, anything it will be used against you in CRIMINAL AND CIVIL court.

Not sure thought if you are really going to have time to put them on before you go wandering in your house.

 

[ghitch75]

i have a set and really like them.....but i wouldn't take the time to get them if someone was in my house....

 

[grimor]

--From the DA--
Jury, Let me tell you a story. The OP may claim this shooting was in self defense. But the fact of the matter is that it was not. It was planned and calculated. The OP woke up startled to a noise, but before calling 9-1-1 for help, before just listening to hear if it was the wind or a stray animal, the OP grabbed his gun and even had time to put on electronic earmuffs before going looking for trouble. Would a scared for their life person have time to grab and put on their electronic earmuffs?

---
I do like the idea of them especially if you have to use a shotgun inside the house. The above while fictional I'm sure is a case that can be made against you for using them. Heck I'm sure if you use reloaded ammo, a gun, anything it will be used against you in CRIMINAL AND CIVIL court.

Not sure thought if you are really going to have time to put them on before you go wandering in your house.

how about, would a person scared for their life put on pants, would a person scared for their life put on their glasses. Correct PPE is the same as loading your gun, if you think you're gonna use it you shold be prepaired.

also, we live in Indiana, if they're in your house, shoot away.

 

[Wild Deuce]

--From the DA--
Jury, Let me tell you a story. The OP may claim this shooting was in self defense. But the fact of the matter is that it was not. It was planned and calculated. The OP woke up startled to a noise, but before calling 9-1-1 for help, before just listening to hear if it was the wind or a stray animal, the OP grabbed his gun and even had time to put on electronic earmuffs before going looking for trouble. Would a scared for their life person have time to grab and put on their electronic earmuffs?

---
I do like the idea of them especially if you have to use a shotgun inside the house. The above while fictional I'm sure is a case that can be made against you for using them. Heck I'm sure if you use reloaded ammo, a gun, anything it will be used against you in CRIMINAL AND CIVIL court.

Not sure thought if you are really going to have time to put them on before you go wandering in your house.

Like grimor said, if you needed pants, you would put them on. If you needed, your glasses, you would put them on. If you needed your shoes, you would put them on. If you needed your walking cane, you would grab it. .... etc. All this assumes that you are not in the middle of an attack. We're talking about hearing a noise in the middle of the night and the need to investigate it. Common sense rules.

As far as the hypothetical legal scenario. It reads like something out of the Brady Campaign playbook. It could be and would be rapidly demolished in any court of law provided there is competent legal counsel and expert witness testimony. Preparation (to defend one's life) does not equal premeditation (to commit murder). Remember, just because a prosecutor can ask a question or make an accusation, doesn't mean it's a good one.

To anyone that worries about issues like this, I would recommend a class like LFI's Judicious Use of Lethal Force (or any similar class). These issues are discussed at length with actual case law examples given. The LFI class, I believe, is now being taught under a new banner called the Rules of Engagement for the Armed Citizen taught by the Massad Ayoob Group. The closest (to NWI) location for this class is with Midwest Training Group.

Again, if you think it's silly (or ridiculous ... or a legal liability) and don't want to have hearing protection on the nightstand ... don't.