Emission Testing.

[RyanGSams]

Last Tuesday I took my car (2007 Honda Civic) to get emission tested. I failed due to Catalyst monitor not being ready. I had disconnected my battery about 2 months ago to clean the terminals. I would think that the monitor would be ready by now. I mostly drive city to work every day. About 10 miles total round trip to work. 8 miles of that is 40 mph. The other 2 is 50mph. On friday I drove for 30 miles highway and 10 minutes city thinking that may help. It didn't. Yesterday I drove about 50 miles one way to Joliet Illinois for the Nascar Race. after I got off the high way I was in stop and go traffic for about 20 mins. And on the way out I was stuck in traffic for about 20 minutes until getting to the highway where i drove for 50 miles again. Checked the computer using a Bluetooth OBDII adapter and the Catalyst is still not ready. I have read in my manual how to drive to reset the emissions. but going 60 MPH in 5th gear and coasting for 90 seconds isn't feasible. I tried that and went from 60 down to 40 in 30 seconds.

What could cause the Catalyst from not being ready? I have no CEL and no pending codes. All other Emission Monitor is ready.

 

[steveh_131]

Geeze man, I just went through this nightmare with my jeep. How much time is left on your plates?

I think that my biggest issue turned out to be a loose ground - but any power failures can cause problems. Even a sketchy battery. It essentially causes the computer to reset everything. I ultimately found this by checking the readiness sensors every time I started the vehicle - and one day saw that ALL my readiness flags had been reset. Cleaned up the ground, tightened up the computer connections, made sure my battery posts were clean and tight.

Once you've ruled that out, it just takes a lot of driving. You might have to hit the highway several days in a row. Sometimes it takes several cycles to get it done - and a cycle might mean the engine has to cool down completely then get hot completely - but that varies from vehicle to vehicle.

For mine, the coasting part was critical - it switched to complete right after I got done coasting (I switched on my hazards and went into the shoulder on the highway). But I have an automatic and I'm not certain how that works with a manual.

Anyways, I did a ton of research on this so maybe I can help get it all figured out.

 

[jkaetz]

Your answer

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm sure not everyone knows the term "drive cycle". I would say that if emissions checks are mandatory the people running the damn things should know this stuff though.

For the decel stuff, if you can't find a place to do it you could always use the interstate shoulder for a temporary thing like that. A long exit ramp would be best though.

 

[darkkevin]

in all likelyhood, you will need a cat. can't say 100% without seeing live data, but when the catalyst is on it's very last leg, it won't get hot enough for the downstream o2 senor to pass it, but it's not quite bad enough to fail it either, so you end up in your situation. only other scenario that is common is if your flex pipe is leaking (before the cat) that will also cause data the pcm doesn't understand and therefore will not pass or fail the monitor. this would be an exhaust leak very near the front of the car.

 

[gummergif]

A little off topic, but I had no idea that this was a thing anywhere in Indiana, so I just looked it up... Apparently, you have to get an emission test every two years if you live in Lake or Porter county? Are you paying for the test? What constitutes failure of the test, and if you car fails you can't register it, or what?

 

[steveh_131]

A little off topic, but I had no idea that this was a thing anywhere in Indiana, so I just looked it up... Apparently, you have to get an emission test every two years if you live in Lake or Porter county? Are you paying for the test? What constitutes failure of the test, and what happens if your car fails?

Test is free (tax payer funded = free!). Cars older than 1996 have their exhaust measured for pollutants. 1996 and newer cars monitor emissions internally, so as long as the tests complete and there is no check engine light, you pass.

If you fail, you fix it and get retested. If you spend $450 on repairs at a certified facility and it still doesn't pass, you might qualify for a temporary exemption until the next test time (2 years).

If you never get it to pass then you can't register it again. Time to sell it or scrap it. Fun, right?

 

[steveh_131]

in all likelyhood, you will need a cat. can't say 100% without seeing live data, but when the catalyst is on it's very last leg, it won't get hot enough for the downstream o2 senor to pass it, but it's not quite bad enough to fail it either, so you end up in your situation. only other scenario that is common is if your flex pipe is leaking (before the cat) that will also cause data the pcm doesn't understand and therefore will not pass or fail the monitor. this would be an exhaust leak very near the front of the car.

There's a trick involving spark plug non-fouler that can get you past the cat issues. Or... so I've heard

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Man, I'm glad this isn't a concern down here.

 

[gummergif]

Test is free (tax payer funded = free!). Cars older than 1996 have their exhaust measured for pollutants. 1996 and newer cars monitor emissions internally, so as long as the tests complete and there is no check engine light, you pass.

If you fail, you fix it and get retested. If you spend $450 on repairs at a certified facility and it still doesn't pass, you might qualify for a temporary exemption until the next test time (2 years).

If you never get it to pass then you can't register it again. Time to sell it or scrap it. Fun, right?

Now, I understand I'm just farting into a thunderstorm here and it isn't gonna change anything...

So basically, I have to give up my personal time to get my car tested, which could possibly result in my perfectly running car, that I still owe money on, failing for a vaguely defined reason that is very likely a fault of the computer system or a sensor component as opposed to an actual emmisions issue?

I was poking fun at a friend of mine for potentially moving to California soon, but it's starting to look like it doesn't matter - if we don't move there, apparently Commie-fornia will just move to us.

 

[steveh_131]

Yes, pretty much. Any check engine code fails it. Even if it has nothing to do with emissions. Sensors and computer glitches can cause it to fail. Most folks are probably used to ignoring check engine lights for things that don't matter. No can do around here.

 

[darkkevin]

There's a trick involving spark plug non-fouler that can get you past the cat issues. Or... so I've heard

yep, usually works, basically there is an upstream o2 sensor and a down stream (i.e. before and after catalyst) and the upstream measures the oxygen content before the cat, the downstream measures after the cat. it's looking for significantly less HC/CO at the downstream. by removing the downstream, threading it into a non-fouler essentially pulls the o2 further out of the pipe and therefore reads less exhaust, wala, cat must be doing it's job!!

 

[steveh_131]

Some more info for you, OP.

Did you get torque when you bought the bluetooth adapter? That's the app I used. Here's a screenshot of the screen I set up to monitor during my drive cycle tests:

These are the values I was looking for with my jeep. Your Honda may require slightly different ones, look around and see if you can find them. This is a combination of info I found on the web and from the Clean Air Check technician on the phone.

Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT): 170-230 degrees F
Engine Load > 10%
Engine runtime > 300 seconds
Fuel status: Closed Loop for at least 30 seconds
Fuel Level: between 15% and 85%
Intake ambient temperature (IAT): 20-180 degrees F
Short term fuel trim (STFT): < +/- 10%
Long Term fuel trim (LTFT): < +/- 10%
Speed: 50-55MP

You want all of these conditions to be satisfied while you drive at 50-55mph for 5-10 minutes (NO brakes and NO slowing down). The guy on the phone said 15 minutes but I didn't find that it took that long. Then you put on your hazards, head over to the shoulder, and coast down as slow as you can. Use the e-brake if necessary, but do NOT hit the regular brakes. I didn't use any brakes at all. Then hit it and speed back up.

You may have to do this cycle multiple days in a row with time to cool down the engine (9 hours) in between.

Anyways I hope this helps. Post again if you need more help, I'd be glad to help a fellow hoosier beat this tyrannical test. I've got more info on the non-fouler trick as well if you're concerned that your cat is sub-par.

Good luck.

 

[jedi]

Now, I understand I'm just farting into a thunderstorm here and it isn't gonna change anything...

So basically, I have to give up my personal time to get my car tested, which could possibly result in my perfectly running car, that I still owe money on, failing for a vaguely defined reason that is very likely a fault of the computer system or a sensor component as opposed to an actual emmisions issue?

I was poking fun at a friend of mine for potentially moving to California soon, but it's starting to look like it doesn't matter - if we don't move there, apparently Commie-fornia will just move to us.

These test were started back in the 80s I think due to all the "pollution" that the mills were making and that supposedly the cars were doing as well. Granted we have a lot of trucks that I don't think have to do this test yet are in our area due to the mills.

Also cars from made before 1978 are exempt from the testing (ie. classical cars) as they would NEVER pass the test.

 

[steveh_131]

These test were started back in the 80s I think due to all the "pollution" that the mills were making and that supposedly the cars were doing as well. Granted we have a lot of trucks that I don't think have to do this test yet are in our area due to the mills.

Any pickup trucks of a certain weight class are excluded. You used to be able to get the truck plate for any truck or SUV and bypass emissions, but now they actually go by the weight. Stinks.

 

[RyanGSams]

in all likelyhood, you will need a cat. can't say 100% without seeing live data, but when the catalyst is on it's very last leg, it won't get hot enough for the downstream o2 senor to pass it, but it's not quite bad enough to fail it either, so you end up in your situation. only other scenario that is common is if your flex pipe is leaking (before the cat) that will also cause data the pcm doesn't understand and therefore will not pass or fail the monitor. this would be an exhaust leak very near the front of the car.

I looked to see if there is a leak. I found nothing leaking. I was just thinking maybe the Cat was going bad.

Some more info for you, OP.

Did you get torque when you bought the bluetooth adapter? That's the app I used. Here's a screenshot of the screen I set up to monitor during my drive cycle tests:

These are the values I was looking for with my jeep. Your Honda may require slightly different ones, look around and see if you can find them. This is a combination of info I found on the web and from the Clean Air Check technician on the phone.

Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT): 170-230 degrees F
Engine Load > 10%
Engine runtime > 300 seconds
Fuel status: Closed Loop for at least 30 seconds
Fuel Level: between 15% and 85%
Intake ambient temperature (IAT): 20-180 degrees F
Short term fuel trim (STFT): < +/- 10%
Long Term fuel trim (LTFT): < +/- 10%
Speed: 50-55MP

You want all of these conditions to be satisfied while you drive at 50-55mph for 5-10 minutes (NO brakes and NO slowing down). The guy on the phone said 15 minutes but I didn't find that it took that long. Then you put on your hazards, head over to the shoulder, and coast down as slow as you can. Use the e-brake if necessary, but do NOT hit the regular brakes. I didn't use any brakes at all. Then hit it and speed back up.

You may have to do this cycle multiple days in a row with time to cool down the engine (9 hours) in between.

Anyways I hope this helps. Post again if you need more help, I'd be glad to help a fellow hoosier beat this tyrannical test. I've got more info on the non-fouler trick as well if you're concerned that your cat is sub-par.

Good luck.

Thanks for the help. I pretty much forgot i made this thread... I did purchase Torque.

I just set up one of my screens like yours. What is the Fuel Status display for? I can't find it on mine. Where did you run your Jeep at to run the Cycle? And I have until the 28th to pass.

Also, I drove from Portage to Michigan City on 94 going around 55-60. Stopped for 5 mins and let it idle. Drove back to Portage going about 55-60. Parked it at home let it idle 5 mins and then shut it off. I have also driven to Joliet, IL last weekend for the Nascar race. Figured that would have fixed the problem.

 

[bigretic]

I use a blue driver scanner. i'm lost on what you mean by catalyst not ready and there being no codes.

 

[RyanGSams]

I use a blue driver scanner. i'm lost on what you mean by catalyst not ready and there being no codes.

Its an emission monitor on the ECU. My CEL light isn't on and no codes are on the ECU

 

[steveh_131]

I just set up one of my screens like yours. What is the Fuel Status display for? I can't find it on mine. Where did you run your Jeep at to run the Cycle? And I have until the 28th to pass.

Go in the real time display area, tap and hold on a blank space on the screen. Select "add display" then scroll down till you see one called 'fuel status'.

I got on 80-94 and went towards michigan at about 11pm. Make sure you do the deceleration, this is exactly when mine flipped to 'ready'. Just pull into the shoulder, put on your hazards, and let it decelerate. I really am not sure how you do this with a stick shift though...

Watch your speed, try to keep it at 55 exactly and make sure your rpm's are around 2000. Also check the rest of those monitors and make sure everything is correct as I posted above. You might want to poke around some civic forums and try to find the exact numbers for your model, the ones I provided are for a jeep.

Hope this helps. I'll try to do a little model-specific research for you if I get a chance.

 

[steveh_131]

That "tap me" button on the bottom looks ominous. You haven't been doing any fault code clearing or anything have you? Or is that just a tip that tells you how to do it? Mine doesn't have that.

 

[RyanGSams]

That "tap me" button on the bottom looks ominous. You haven't been doing any fault code clearing or anything have you? Or is that just a tip that tells you how to do it? Mine doesn't have that.

It's just a help button that I have enabled. That particular button only brings up a help menu and explanations. There has to be something wrong for me to drive 1,200 miles and it not being ready.