Enhanced Interrogation- from a guy who did it, and saved a lot of lives

[ATM]

I think you know your refusal to be forthright earlier is the only reason you escaped being in the position of answering to earthly authorities on such matters.

If I plan the escape, it's not really an escape, more of an exit I may use at my leisure.

But here's some natural law, since we're making it up on the fly: protect the innocent from the aggressor. If he's not alone, he's not done being the aggressor. If he hasn't put a stop to his machinations, he's still the aggressor.

Tell it to the Judge.

 

[Alpo]

"Natural Law". "God".

Interesting argument, but not persuasive. Natural law among mammals is, generally, protection of the young. Outsiders (such as ATM in this case) are severely dealt with, assuming they inject themselves into the proceedings.

 

[Hop]

Then shoot me before I shoot yosomewhereecause I won't allow you to torture anyone without consequences.

It's a valid hollowpoint.

Say the kid is sealed in an air tight box buried somewhere with limited air. I know for a fact this perp burried my kid. I caught him with the dirty shovel and who knows what else indisputable evidence. I will tortue this perp up until he reveals the whereabouts. If atm attempts to stop me then atm becomes an accomplice to the perp. As much as I like atm, i'll shoot him for trying to prevent me from saving my kid. Sorry atm.

 

[actaeon277]

Shouldn't be any, as that's not murder. I defended your victim and stopped a threat.

You should have stopped.

He initiate the action. Seriously, you keep using the same argument of people that want to take your gun.


And let the loved one die, and charge him with murder?
I guess each is on his own? Including kids?
Since you won't pull your gun to protect a loved one (just charge someone with murder, right?), but you'll protect someone that initiated evil.

Sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.



Since we're just restating arguments, I'm outta here.

 

[ATM]

Which is a great argument. Because the terrorists have been coerced into building bombs and killing other people. It would be different if they had volunteered to be terrorists. Then the things that happened to them would be natural consequences of their own choices.

Please.

Everyone can be labeled a terrorist, we're basically at war with anyone we want or need to be. Please.

WAR is simply a tool to justify the unjustifiable and bypass normal authority.

 

[Woobie]

Frankly, ATM, if someone tries to kill my kids, and I stop one of the conspirators, then I'm going to try to figure out, however I have to, to stop the rest of them. If he freely divulges, then he will not suffer at my hand any more than being held for the police. If he refuses to help me, that refusal is an aggression, as it constitutes moving the attack toward an eventuality, and I will do what I must to stop that aggression. If someone during this process attempts to stop me, I will see him as party to the conspiracy, and deal with him as necessary. If he walks in with a gun to stop me, I'm going to make that decision very quickly and shoot him or get shot trying. But I won't stop trying to save the innocent until I'm successful or dead.

 

[Woobie]

Everyone can be labeled a terrorist, we're basically at war with anyone we want or need to be. Please.

WAR is simply a tool to justify the unjustifiable and bypass normal authority.

No, war is the attack of a foreign power upon the U.S. and it's people. That isn't hard to figure out. And it's a real freaking thing. In some people's fluffy world, the only aggressors are the U.S., or government. But that's not reality. You're a smart guy. You either know that, and are willfully denying it, or you're smoking too much of your own product.

 

[ATM]

Say the kid is sealed in an air tight box buried somewhere with limited air. I know for a fact this perp burried my kid. I caught him with the dirty shovel and who knows what else indisputable evidence. I will tortue this perp up until he reveals the whereabouts. If atm attempts to stop me then atm becomes an accomplice to the perp. As much as I like atm, i'll shoot him for trying to prevent me from saving my kid. Sorry atm.

I understand. Emotionally overwhelming situations often cause people to make horribly evil errors of judgement.

The question is, would you be justified?

 

[ATM]

He initiate the action. Seriously, you keep using the same argument of people that want to take your gun.

And let the loved one die, and charge him with murder?
I guess each is on his own? Including kids?
Since you won't pull your gun to protect a loved one (just charge someone with murder, right?), but you'll protect someone that initiated evil.

Sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

Since we're just restating arguments, I'm outta here.

You lost me there anyway. Another thread, another time.

 

[ATM]

"Natural Law". "God".

Interesting argument, but not persuasive. Natural law among mammals is, generally, protection of the young. Outsiders (such as ATM in this case) are severely dealt with, assuming they inject themselves into the proceedings.

Are you talking about the law of the jungle?

 

[Woobie]

If I plan the escape, it's not really an escape, more of an exit I may use at my leisure.



Tell it to the Judge.

But the act of using it is not any more forthright.

Oh, the Judge will hold me accountable. I am commanded to do justice to the afflicted and needy. I am not commanded to not splash water on someone's face.

 

[ATM]

...If he refuses to help me, that refusal is an aggression...

That's all I needed, thanks. Your self-justification, at last!

 

[Woobie]

That's all I needed, thanks. Your self-justification, at last!

Dude, we covered that awhile back. Guess you just wanted the magic words???

 

[Alpo]

Are you talking about the law of the jungle?

I'm sorry, I don't answer ATM questions. They tend to be Mandelbrotian.

 

[Woobie]

I'm sorry, I don't answer ATM questions. They tend to be Mandelbrotian.

Crap, you've made me feel dumber. Now I must go try to get smarter.

 

[ATM]

I'm sorry, I don't answer ATM questions. They tend to be Mandelbrotian.

You used to at least try ...once in a while.

 

[Trigger Time]

Did you volunteer? Did you waive your right and allow this to be done to you? Your instructors needed no further justification.

There is no justification needed for doing it to terrorist either

 

[poptab]

What will your consequences be for murder?

You mean justified homicide ?
None.

We all think torture is wrong. We are just arguing over what constitutes torture.

Now say atm tortures the guy who allegedly kidnaps his dog. Atm is rightly brought up on charges. I get selected for jury duty. The way i vote depends on if the guy did actually kidnap the dog. If atm got the wrong guy well then i vote guilty. If atm saved his dog though im likely to vote not guilty.

Replace atm with the government and im going to vote guilty either way.

 

[ATM]

Dude, we covered that awhile back. Guess you just wanted the magic words???

I miss a lot, obviously.

 

[ATM]

There is no justification needed for doing it to terrorist either

May you never be labeled as such.