Eric Holcomb pushing for refugee resettlement in Indiana?

[jamil]

I think his position is a lot like mine: in favor of taking many refugees. But he can certainly speak for himself.

I was making the moral case only in response to the members in this discussion who were saying that the U.S. should never take any refugees. (But with this many people in the discussion, it's easy for that to get lost, so I needed to clarify.)

We can pleasantly debate how many to take and from which situations; Taking none is, in my view, a categorically wrong answer.

Taking in any, without regard to the impact on the targeted communities, is just as immoral. Those of us who can agree that both of those statements are true, really don’t disagree on much of the broader topic. I suspect that in real life, there is not such agreement, because it only seems to work one way.

 

[churchmouse]

I think his position is a lot like mine: in favor of taking many refugees. But he can certainly speak for himself.

I was making the moral case only in response to the members in this discussion who were saying that the U.S. should never take any refugees. (But with this many people in the discussion, it's easy for that to get lost, so I needed to clarify.)

We can pleasantly debate how many to take and from which situations; Taking none is, in my view, a categorically wrong answer.

I am breaking silence here for an idea you all need to mull over.
How to deal with these people. What policy's are in place or need to be in place to properly and "Gently" assimilate them into out society.
And what steps to be taken in this assimilation process so we all can get passed the bad stuff.
What actually makes a person/person a refugee. There has to be standards and they have to be met.

OK stepping back now.

 

[nonobaddog]

I am breaking silence here for an idea you all need to mull over.
How to deal with these people. What policy's are in place or need to be in place to properly and "Gently" assimilate them into out society.
And what steps to be taken in this assimilation process so we all can get passed the bad stuff.
What actually makes a person/person a refugee. There has to be standards and they have to be met.

OK stepping back now.

No need to step back. Your opinion is just as valid as any other, maybe more so because of experience.

 

[cerebus85]

This is quite the interesting read. It's pretty evident that it singles out a certain groups of people in our city. What I find interesting is that nobody here really offers a plan. Assimilating is a tough thing. I personally wish my ancestors hadn't lost so much of the home country. It would have been nice to grow up bilingual, and multi-cultural. I live on the south side and interact fairly regularly with the burmese. I haven't really seen the problems everyone is so quick to point out. Bad refugees act the same as bed citizens. The only difference is that they stand out more because they are different.
Now I do work in the inner city and I will say this. I would rather pay for a family of refugees to start over and be successful than continuing paying for the generational welfare/ebt/ free everything that I have to see on an everyday basis. If that is the america you are trying to protect then....that's a separate conversation.
As far as the public assistance goes i see it like this. Yes they get resettlement money and public assistance. But the majority of them are young women and children and older folk. They go to work at places like Amazon and KYB. They also pool their money and have a greater sense of communal living than most of us. If Americans were willing to do these jobs we wouldn't have refugees. The folks at KYB make pretty good dough and they work hard. People who feel threatened by it should maybe vote, or step up their game.

Some of the argument are so "get off my lawn" and fudd like that its just stupid.

 

[churchmouse]

This is quite the interesting read. It's pretty evident that it singles out a certain groups of people in our city. What I find interesting is that nobody here really offers a plan. Assimilating is a tough thing. I personally wish my ancestors hadn't lost so much of the home country. It would have been nice to grow up bilingual, and multi-cultural. I live on the south side and interact fairly regularly with the burmese. I haven't really seen the problems everyone is so quick to point out. Bad refugees act the same as bed citizens. The only difference is that they stand out more because they are different.
Now I do work in the inner city and I will say this. I would rather pay for a family of refugees to start over and be successful than continuing paying for the generational welfare/ebt/ free everything that I have to see on an everyday basis. If that is the america you are trying to protect then....that's a separate conversation.
As far as the public assistance goes i see it like this. Yes they get resettlement money and public assistance. But the majority of them are young women and children and older folk. They go to work at places like Amazon and KYB. They also pool their money and have a greater sense of communal living than most of us. If Americans were willing to do these jobs we wouldn't have refugees. The folks at KYB make pretty good dough and they work hard. People who feel threatened by it should maybe vote, or step up their game.

Some of the argument are so "get off my lawn" and fudd like that its just stupid.

OK. So you have not had the experiences we have around here with the crop that settled in around us.

Get off my lawn......absolutely. If you are on my lawn.

There have been plans discussed. And in this taking care of our own would also include cleaning house on the porch dwellers that ride the mail box.

And not everyone appreciates the Burmese as much as you do. I have had interactions with them. In the businesses they start servicing the A/C and refrigeration systems. Not at all easy to deal with.

I love our Hispanic neighbors directly around us. Great people. And I know many are not legal. But they work.

The issues come from those who have no desire to become part of what the area is about. This is not Carmel and we know it but still.


Crap. I posted again.

 

[Trigger Time]

See? None of this is racist. This is all personality. Most people like being around people who are like them. Some people like being around at least people who are different from them. The problem with the latter is that they seem to think it's a moral issue. That they're being especially tolerant of "diversity". That's kinda bull****.

Yeah i don't care about being known as tolerant or whatever the new term of the day is. No offense meant to you. Im speakimg in general.
I just try to treat ALL people with kindness. I teach my children this. I had the chance to teach them this today, because there are never a shortage of ass holes in the world to point at and say see do not be like that and here is why.
I taught them today that they are no better than anyone else and that no one else owes them a damn thing. If they want something you work for it to earn it or you say please and thank you.
I dont mind meeting new people of all walks of life and cultures. I've done it so much. I love people believe it or not and you could drop me in any country on this planet and Ill bet you money Ill make genuine friends for life within a day. Not fake, genuine.
But i just dont want to. I want to just stick to what is comfortable. The people who are similar to me. And I dont mean all in agreement on everything. But similar thinking on most yes.
That's just a human nature thing I believe. I don't need fancy studies to tell me that. I can read people, i know people because I like people.
So for a lot of people im sure the word diversity means skin color. But to me it doesn't. Diversity means cultural differences

 

[Trigger Time]

Cerebus85
The Burmese around the Southside are increasing crime and lowering housing prices. Thats what they are doing. I'm sure there are great people among them but I personally do not want any of them in my community. Send them somewhere else.

You could insert any other race or group and if they were doing the same I would have the same feelings.

 

[churchmouse]

Cerebus85
The Burmese around the Southside are increasing crime and lowering housing prices. Thats what they are doing. I'm sure there are great people among them but I personally do not want any of them in my community. Send them somewhere else.

And these "Get off my lawn" responses are from our direct contact/experiences with thee people.

The 1st one that moved in around us was from Pakistan. He was escaping the insanity over there. He had family here already. They pooled resources and bought the house next door to us that had sat empty in an estate dispute for 2 years. He had been in the Pharmacy business but here his licenses were useless so he worked 2 jobs went to school and lived alone until he could get back into a Pharmacy and bring his family over here. Decent enough man.
Once his family arrived (a year later) you never saw them. But you heard them praying together. Muslims. His brother was a high ranking member of the local Mosque. As time went on there were at least 3 episodes of him beating the living crap out of his wife. I intervened stopping him as he was out front of his house. He was using a wooden broom "Handle" on her. He tried to fight me for stopping him which was a bit stupid but he was a prideful. Man. I tried to explain we do not beat the woman folk here with out reprisal from the authority's This is when I learned about Sharia law. He said we need to keep the woman in line. If I did not I was not a man. I mentioned his ass went down pretty quick so yeah I was a man. He just looked at me as if WTH why does he not understand.
The cultural differences became glaringly visible to me.

His kids (8 of them) all started to become westernized and he was loosing his mind over that. I asked him what he expected of them when so much was right there to be had. He moved shortly after but I saw him from time to time. The older kids left home to live our life. He hated that and disowned them. And I mean he disowned them. My point here is there is no blending, They want to continue as things were not as we live. Assimilating is serious work. It is hard.
I do not want a family to become white people. They will retain the culture and that is not all bad. But if you come here there will be struggles. Serious ones.

 

[cerebus85]

You don't have to appreciate them. But knowing more about the situations that affect the inability to "assimilate" goes a long way.
Can we prove that they are increasing the crime? As for the home prices can we prove that the housing crisis didn't create a vacuum of homes that allowed them to settle?
I spoke with my realtor this week about the Burmese housing issue. He has seen little to no impact on them with the housing, and more to the point they fund their homes and continuing paying for them which is more than some of paler melanin.

Once again someone please enlighten me on where and what you guys propose the solution should be.
Some on here sound like they would be more in favor of how the Chinese deal with the Uighurs

 

[Cameramonkey]

I am breaking silence here for an idea you all need to mull over.
How to deal with these people. What policy's are in place or need to be in place to properly and "Gently" assimilate them into out society.
And what steps to be taken in this assimilation process so we all can get passed the bad stuff.
What actually makes a person/person a refugee. There has to be standards and they have to be met.

OK stepping back now.

A good first step is to stop making everything bilingual so they are forced to learn the language. And it would be a great savings too. I forget which city, but a major city in TX changed their policy and quit printing multiple copies of forms in various languages. They made the step and said "We do business in English. If you wish to interact with the city it will not be in another language." They saved over 9 million dollars by switching. And churches and other civic organizations stepped up and helped those that didnt speak english get what they needed. (and presumably helped them learn english)

And I too am a YUGE fan of Canada's immigration policy. We need to do it as well. We also need to make it easier to become a citizen. Not as simple as filling out a form, but not as long and drawn out as it is today.

 

[churchmouse]

You don't have to appreciate them. But knowing more about the situations that affect the inability to "assimilate" goes a long way.
Can we prove that they are increasing the crime? As for the home prices can we prove that the housing crisis didn't create a vacuum of homes that allowed them to settle?
I spoke with my realtor this week about the Burmese housing issue. He has seen little to no impact on them with the housing, and more to the point they fund their homes and continuing paying for them which is more than some of paler melanin.

Once again someone please enlighten me on where and what you guys propose the solution should be.
Some on here sound like they would be more in favor of how the Chinese deal with the Uighurs

OK we have closed the thread once for lumping everyone together and calling them out. This is all pretty civil. Lets keep it that way please.

You can make your points with out the last sentences.

 

[cerebus85]

the point was civilly made in the last sentences

 

[Ggreen]

Ok i hopped on an actual keyboard to write out this response.

Refugees in indiana come from burma and the congo. They do not speak spanish, or english. This is mostly due to them not knowing where they might get to go when they get out of the nightmare they are living in. Mother and daughter could end up here, and grandma grandpa end up in europe. The refugee camps do not provide much of anything in the way of services beyond vetting and finding them a safe place to live and raise their children.

These minority groups are in desperate situations. Stand and fight is absolutely not an option, but a way of life. Most of these people are facing foreign government funded militarized genocide with sticks and stones. If they are lucky enough to get into a refugee camp, most will live the rest of their life there waiting for someone to accept them. We won't go in and help arm them, because we'll p*** off the chinese and russians using them as slaves in copper mines. Americans cant fathom this, because we are armed and educated.

The UN pays passage into host countries, then steps away. There are a few government funds built from international grants and trusts that dedicate money to refugee causes, think smithsonian without the government stealing the money. Once they are here they may or may not be eligble for very limited government programs that allow non citizens to get support. Most of these funds are to help the children and adults may not qualify. It's less than a percent of a percent of tax money that helps them here. its a lot less than rocket that we sent to separate the pieces of solemani from one another(sp).

Once they are here they are required to go to classes to learn english, grooming, culture, law, etc... We don't want to strip their culture or their identity, diversity makes america great and interesting. So assimilation is not the goal, cohabitation is. They absolutely go through courses on american culture. The goal is citizenship

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Ok i hopped on an actual keyboard to write out this response.

Refugees in indiana come from burma and the congo. They do not speak spanish, or english. This is mostly due to them not knowing where they might get to go when they get out of the nightmare they are living in. Mother and daughter could end up here, and grandma grandpa end up in europe. The refugee camps do not provide much of anything in the way of services beyond vetting and finding them a safe place to live and raise their children.

These minority groups are in desperate situations. Stand and fight is absolutely not an option, but a way of life. Most of these people are facing foreign government funded militarized genocide with sticks and stones. If they are lucky enough to get into a refugee camp, most will live the rest of their life there waiting for someone to accept them. We won't go in and help arm them, because we'll p*** off the chinese and russians using them as slaves in copper mines. Americans cant fathom this, because we are armed and educated.

The UN pays passage into host countries, then steps away. There are a few government funds built from international grants and trusts that dedicate money to refugee causes, think smithsonian without the government stealing the money. Once they are here they may or may not be eligble for very limited government programs that allow non citizens to get support. Most of these funds are to help the children and adults may not qualify. It's less than a percent of a percent of tax money that helps them here. its a lot less than rocket that we sent to separate the pieces of solemani from one another(sp).

Once they are here they are required to go to classes to learn english, grooming, culture, law, etc... We don't want to strip their culture or their identity, diversity makes america great and interesting. So assimilation is not the goal, cohabitation is. They absolutely go through courses on american culture. The goal is citizenship

I think therein lies the problem. Assimilation should be the goal, along with citizenship. They are free to practice their cultural traditions amongst themselves, but they should absolutely assimilate in order to function in society at large and become citizens.

 

[Ggreen]

I think therein lies the problem. Assimilation should be the goal, along with citizenship. They are free to practice their cultural traditions amongst themselves, but they should absolutely assimilate in order to function in society at large and become citizens.

Assimilate to what? A single family has completely different ideas on morality, freedom, ethics... In this very thread there are 30 different ideas of what is acceptable in a neighbor. Besides all of that, I believe that turning away people in the deepest pits of despair that humans are capable of inflicting is morally and ethically bankrupt.

 

[bwframe]

Why don't we throw our money into shipping refugees into Iraq? Lets let the experimentation happen there, instead of in our neighborhoods, on our roadways and in our schools.

Much better to supervise this from a distance as opposed to risking the well being of our loved ones.

 

[jamil]

You don't have to appreciate them. But knowing more about the situations that affect the inability to "assimilate" goes a long way.
Can we prove that they are increasing the crime? As for the home prices can we prove that the housing crisis didn't create a vacuum of homes that allowed them to settle?
I spoke with my realtor this week about the Burmese housing issue. He has seen little to no impact on them with the housing, and more to the point they fund their homes and continuing paying for them which is more than some of paler melanin.

Once again someone please enlighten me on where and what you guys propose the solution should be.
Some on here sound like they would be more in favor of how the Chinese deal with the Uighurs

That's kinda ridiculous don't you think? About proposed solutions? Did you read the thread first?

 

[Ggreen]

Why don't we throw our money into shipping refugees into Iraq? Lets let the experimentation happen there, instead of in our neighborhoods, on our roadways and in our schools.

Much better to supervise this from a distance as opposed to risking the well being of our loved ones.

Statistically your loved ones are in more danger from other American citizens than refugees.

 

[bwframe]

Statistically your loved ones are in more danger from other American citizens than refugees.

Links please.

 

[Twangbanger]

Statistically your loved ones are in more danger from other American citizens than refugees.

Are you going to name the NGO you work(ed) with? Up-thread you suggested we Google it, as verification US public funds aren't used.

Here is post #337, to refresh your memory:

Did you miss the part where I said I've actually worked with the ngo that has the responsibility to take care of them through citizenship? Easy to google and they will gladly share their struggle with you. I'm not an expert, but I'm not ignorant on this topic.

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