Extended fingers are illegal in America

[rambone]

Some yahoo blocked the entire intersection during this guy's green light. He gave 'em the finger. The extended finger was observed by police and the man attached to the finger was promptly issued a citation. The yahoo driver went free.

Have we really reached the point in Nanny State history when the government tells you that you aren't allowed to extend your finger in anger? Is raising your voice still allowed? What about honking your horn? What about telling the other driver to die in a fire?

I'm issuing this a great big thumbs down on this situation, this law, this senseless enforcer. Are thumbs pointing down in anger still legal?

Man cited for "flipping the bird" at another driver

Pogue tells NewsChannel 5 it was a busy Saturday and he was sitting at a light on Manchester, heading west at Holloway. That's when Pogue says another driver ventured into an already jammed intersection as the light was turning red, blocking his way, and voiding his green light.

"The driver of the van and I made contact. I was driving west and the arm was there and like I said, not proud, showed my displeasure in them blocking the intersection," said Pogue.

Just a few blocks later, Pogue was pulled over by Ballwin police and given a citation.

​

 

[flatlander]

HOLY CRAP- I AGREE WITH RAMBONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

 

[Awful Waffle]

Pogue tells NewsChannel 5 it was a busy Saturday and he was sitting at a light on Manchester, heading west at Holloway. That's when Pogue says another driver ventured into an already jammed intersection as the light was turning red, blocking his way, and voiding his green light.

People who do that dont deserve the middle finger. They deserve to be shot. I could name a million different driving habits that annoy me but this is easily top 5. If your entire vehicle cant get through the intersection, stop at the light!!!!!!!! I dont care if its green, that doesnt mean you should block the intersection.

 

[G_Stines]

Pretty sure the middle finger is covered under freedom of speech... Not completely, but pretty sure. I would take that to the judge and fight that as high as I could.

 

[beararms1776]

States are broke and desperate for funding. Even though it was only a citation, you can probably expect to see more of this kind of stuff in actual fines.

 

[elemonator]

At The Anthony trial on the news(CNN) some kid gave the bird and he got 6 days in jail and a $400 fine plus court costs!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Fighting words are rarely free speech.

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

At The Anthony trial on the news(CNN) some kid gave the bird and he got 6 days in jail and a $400 fine plus court costs!

Yes, with contempt of court it could have been much longer and much more expensive.

 

[Garb]

Fighting words are rarely free speech.

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

Most reasonable people I know have pretty thick skin. I wouldn't consider flipping someone off to fall under this category.

 

[femurphy77]

Most reasonable people I know have pretty thick skin. I wouldn't consider flipping someone off to fall under this category.

What he said, I've been the flippee a few times in my life and I always acknowledge the gesture with a hugely exaggerated laugh in the flippers direction. I guess that falls under some peoples definition of provocation too huh?

 

[DragonGunner]

Couple weeks ago about the same thing happened to a friend of mine....another car pulled out in front of him an made him swerve passed center or he would of hit him. My friend flipped the bird an a cop saw it....citation. Nothing done to the other guy, guess the cop didn't see that.....Like Kirk said, its in the law....don't like it, change the law.

 

[DragonGunner]

Most reasonable people I know have pretty thick skin. I wouldn't consider flipping someone off to fall under this category.

Most people...what happens when you flip the wrong guy off that isn't reasonable. Or someone flips off your mom or daughter....remember, your reasonable.

 

[mrjarrell]

There's enough case law citing that giving someone the bird (especially cops) is protected speech. IMPD got sued quite a few years back for arresting someone for flipping them off and they lost their case. It IS protected speech and, if someone cares to fight it they'll win.

 

[littletommy]

Flipping the bird is how we say good morning in the shop I work in.

 

[jbombelli]

Fighting words are rarely free speech.

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.



Yes, with contempt of court it could have been much longer and much more expensive.

A "reasonable man" beats people up when given the finger?

Sweet. I guess I've been unreasonable all this time.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Did anyone read the article? The local ordinance cited is for extending a body part out of the window (not) for signaling purposes... the guy claims (in reply) that he was "signaling", but we all know that the ordinance refers to what they teach (or used to teach) you to do in drivers' ed when your vehicle has no working turn signal and/or brake light.

I'm not sure the purpose of an ordinance like that, but it assuredly did not include the stifling of the 1A.

Oh, and Kirk... Citing IN law when the case was in MO? That's one case of .45 ACP you owe ALL of us.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[turnandshoot4]

Bill, you missed the point. For a rambone article to work you CAN NOT read the article.

He doesn't.

 

[M67]

What about people who drive with their left arm/hand out hanging out of the window, that's not for singnaling and I've never seen them pulled over for doing so.

This is complete BS, flipping someone off and getting in trouble, are we in grade school? Why can't the jackasses who drive **** poor ever be pulled over.

I've flipped off a few people, spit on a couple cars too (not the driver) because they were jackasses (half in a turn lane, half in mine; when they're trying to pass someone and they're coming flying towords me with not enough room and I have to get on the shoulder; etc.). Good thing I've never been caught, that spit could be assualt with bodily fluid.

I wonder if in time we're all going to be required to have "hows my driving" bumper stickers with a number to call if we see a jackass, because looks like we can't flip them off.

 

[rambone]

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

There's no way a reasonable Hoosier would exit his vehicle and batter somebody over a hand gesture. Free speech I say!

I wonder if in time we're all going to be required to have "hows my driving" bumper stickers with a number to call if we see a jackass, because looks like we can't flip them off.

What if the sticker contains the number 1-800-####-YOU ? Is that still legal?

 

[G_Stines]

At The Anthony trial on the news(CNN) some kid gave the bird and he got 6 days in jail and a $400 fine plus court costs!

That was contempt though, contempt is for being disrespectful in a court to the authority of the court, proceedings or judge.

States are broke and desperate for funding. Even though it was only a citation, you can probably expect to see more of this kind of stuff in actual fines.

I means, I guess. If they threw it under the catch all of disorderly conduct.

Fighting words are rarely free speech.

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

I fight your citation with my own "Justice William J. Brennan, Jr. "If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable." Texas v. Johnson 491 U.S. 397 (1989)

 

[lashicoN]

Have we really reached the point in Nanny State history when the government tells you that you aren't allowed to extend your finger in anger? Is raising your voice still allowed? What about honking your horn?

A friend of mine was driving through South Bend a while back late at night. A SBPD car cut her off while he was switching lanes, with his lights off (if my memory serves me correct), so she honked her horn at him. He pulled her over from the front, called backup to trap her in from behind and cited her for improper use of a horn, so, no, honking your horn at the government's first class people is no longer allowed in these brave new United States. I'm surprised the cops let the guy keep his finger. We all know cops never, ever, flip the bird... or swear, EVER.

Fighting words are rarely free speech.

You can find provocation in the Indiana Code here if interested:

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.

The thing about provocative fighting words is that they have to be...

1. Provoking a fight
2. Be words

First of all, it appears in this situation, that the provocation was the man holding up traffic. That would seem, to me, to be the thing to provoke Americans to commit battery.

Seeing someone's finger doesn't get me riled up. You can see the middle finger any time you can see someone's hand. Just because someone raises their middle finger, in a gesture, in their mind, is still really just a raised middle finger. Since I'm a sane, rational thinking human being, the act of seeing a regular finger turned into a raised finger does not turn me from a regular person to a raised temper person. Once again, though, I'm a stable human being.

I think it would be a far, thin, stretch to say that a reasonable person would fly off the handle and commit battery due to the fact that a guy, across an intersection, put his hand out the window, and raised up one of his fingers at you.

What do people do if someone gives you a thumbs up? Should that be illegal too? What if the sight of a thumbs up sends you into such a state of happiness and joy that you just start sobbing with euphoria and are no longer capable of driving? Shouldn't we ban all raised fingers? WHAT IF SOMEONE WAIVES AT YOU?! WITH ALL FIVE FINGERS!!! I can't imagine the power of that gesture, it must be like a thumbs up, or flipping the bird, multiplied by five.