external safety hatred syndrome

[Garb]

I've seen it in quite a few threads on here recently, and I'm just curious about it. I'm a relatively new gun owner, but I carry a 1911 cocked and locked with the safety on. For me, that's comfortable, but I want to hear why it makes so many others uncomfortable.

 

[Milkshakeed]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

 

[mammynun]

 

[KillStick]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

Wow really, the 1911 was only designed to be carried that way.

 

[Amishman44]

I grew up with .357mag revolvers...and I still favor them! I prefer the Glock, stryker-fired style pistol because it mimicks what I am already used to with the revolver, only with a shorter trigger pull! I'm not against 1911 style pistols...I just prefer something different.

Safety...the best safety is the one between your ears...if you can't use that one right, you probably shouldn't have a firearm in the first place!

I had a Colt Officer's Model 1911-A1 pistol for a long time...extended beaver-tail, night sights, rubber grips, 3-holsters, etc...and it was an AWESOME little pistol...and the .45acp was a good round!

But now that we have small children (6, 3, & 2) in the house, I made the decision that there was no way I was going to keep a 'cocked-n-locked' style pistol in the house...I just didn't feel comfortable with it in that 'ready-to-fire' position! The revolvers are in the safe...and the Glock doesn't have a bullet in the chamber!!! I will live with the risk that I have a 1/2 second to chamber a round, in a moment of need, rather than live with the risk that, God forbid, one of my children gets a hold of it and manages to pull the trigger, and injure or kill another one of our children. There'll come a day when that changes too...but for now, that's what it is! Besides...if something's happening around the house...I'll probably grab the 870 or the AR anyhow!

 

[Garb]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

I agree with not relying on my safety, which is why I never point it at anyone. Besides, I'm asking you why you don't like it, not why I shouldn't like it.

 

[Garb]

I grew up with .357mag revolvers...and I still favor them! I prefer the Glock, stryker-fired style pistol because it mimicks what I am already used to with the revolver, only with a shorter trigger pull! I'm not against 1911 style pistols...I just prefer something different.

Safety...the best safety is the one between your ears...if you can't use that one right, you probably shouldn't have a firearm in the first place!

I had a Colt Officer's Model 1911-A1 pistol for a long time...extended beaver-tail, night sights, rubber grips, 3-holsters, etc...and it was an AWESOME little pistol...and the .45acp was a good round!

But now that we have small children (6, 3, &2) in the house, I made the decision that there was no way I was going to keep a 'cocked-n-locked' style pistol in the house with small children around...I just didn't feel comfortable with it! The revolvers are in the safe...and the Glock doesn't have a bullet in the chamber!!! I will live with the risk that I have a 1/2 second to chamber a round, in a moment of need, rather than live with the risk that, God forbid, one of my children gets a hold of it and manages to pull the trigger, and injure or kill another one of our children. There'll come a day when that changes too...but for now, that's what it is!

Besides...if something's happening around the house...I'll probably grab the 870 or the AR anyhow!

I agree on the safety between my ears. I actually see the 1911 safety system as more safe rather than less. The thumb safety and the grip safety are plenty of safety features for me, anymore and I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying the darn thing lol.

 

[Vince49]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

Your instructor would really love my Glocks and revolvers then!

 

[esrice]

I've seen it in quite a few threads on here recently, and I'm just curious about it.

ESHS () is most commonly seen in those who carry striker-fired, DAO, or DA/SA handguns.

The common belief is that having a manual safety puts your average gun owner into a state of laziness, whereby they rely on the mechanical safety to actually keep them safe. A better alternative is to always adhere to the 4 safety rules, regardless of how many safeties you do or don't have.

And if you can adhere to those 4 rules, why not do away with one unnecessary step between draw and *bang*?

Uncock that thing.

Not good advice, as the OP carries a 1911, which was designed to be carried "cocked 'n locked". Being single action, it isn't recommended to carry it cocked and UNlocked.

cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

Disagree.

 

[Garb]

ESHS () is most commonly seen in those who carry striker-firer, DAO, or DA/SA handguns.

Did we just introduce a new acronym to INGO?

 

[crispy]

ESHS isn't half as prevalent or nasty as LCIHS.

Something that doesn't affect the functioning of their handgun in any way drives them into a tizzy...

 

[jbombelli]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

Single-action-only pistols are meant to be carried cocked and locked. Cocking it is nowhere near as fast as thumbing the safety.


edited: I always thought that some people develop ESHS due to the external safety being one more thing to have to manipulate before you can fire the pistol, which slows you down, and gives you one more thing to screw up when the adrenaline is dumping and you lose all your fine motor skills.

That said, I carry a HiPower. Practicing the draw, flipping the safety and firing is important. Develop the muscle memory and it won't be an issue.

 

[cbseniour]

All this talk about safety being between your ears is wonderful and shows acceptance of personal responsibility but which of us is vigilant 100% of the time???
The 1911 was designed for soldiers , primarily officers to carry in combat situations. It has a grip safety, a half cock safety and a manual side safety none of which have to my knowledge caused anyone's death. ( qualifier my knowledge). By the way I carried a 1911 in Vietnam and can attest that the army insisted they be carried without a round in the chamber.
If you want to think that you are safer because you are trained and vigilant then good for you but don't condemn us old folks and retards who still like cocked and locked.
One more thing when you don't have a manual safety and a hammer don't you give up something in accuracy and speed to that double action trigger???

 

[garyindiane]

Not mine but funny...

-Gary

 

[bigcraig]

Have you taken a gun safety class? If you have, ask for your money back. NEVER rely on your safety. You are your best safety. Uncock that thing. If it's speed you are worried about, cocking it is just as fast as clicking the safety over.

This post is wrong.

 

[XtremeVel]

Wouldn't say I hate external safeties. I wish I was still young and quick enough where I felt they were still a option for me... Now days though, I just like the lack of something extra to have do in a possible stressful situation.

 

[kingnereli]

I've seen it in quite a few threads on here recently, and I'm just curious about it. I'm a relatively new gun owner, but I carry a 1911 cocked and locked with the safety on. For me, that's comfortable, but I want to hear why it makes so many others uncomfortable.

Yes, there is a lot of that on INGO and, as you can see, they'll tell you you aren't as concerned with firearm safety as you should be BECAUSE you have a safety on your pistol. I'm actually quite the opposite. With the exception of DA/SA all semi-autos should have a safety. It is unsafe and irresponsible to carry one otherwise. Someone made a good point earlier by questioning whether or not we can be 100% vigilant with the safety between our ears. The fact is we can not. It would only take one slip up for something terrible to happen. Brain flubs are common. Just ask yourself how many times you have put the peanut butter in the fridge and the jelly in the cabinet. (or some other example that better applies.)

Sticking a chunk of metal in the path of a moving part is a very reliable safety. It doesn't mean over reliance. You would be hard pressed to find someone who carries a safety equipped handgun that believes they can yank on the trigger and point it wherever they want because the safety is engaged. All safety rules still apply. Actually, it really is about layers of safety. It's a common principle. Hating safeties is like hating seat belts because an air bag will deploy in the event of a crash. Safety in layers. Heck, the four rules are built around the concept. For anything truly disastrous to happen you would have to break at least two rules. Sure, you may put a whole in your wall or tick someone off by muzzle sweeping him but it's breaking multiple rules that gets someone killed or injured.

Also, any time you see someone reference safeties as slow or an extra step it is safe to assume that they have not adequately trained with a safety equipped pistol. Unfortunately, those seem to be the ones that are the most outspoken against them. disengaging a safety adds zero time to the draw. Hitting the safety is part of the draw. By the time the muzzle has leveled off the safety is off. With a proper draw the safety is impossible to miss. Yes, I said impossible. It is difficult to explain but it has to do with the thumb position on the draw. The problem is that people who don't know better thing using a safety is a matter of drawing the pistol, fumbling around to find and depress the safety lever and finally getting on target. It isn't a separate step from anything else.

I carry 1911's and XD's. Both benefit from the single action trigger that usually facilitates the presence of a safety. The 1911, with its thumb safety, is no more troublesome to shoot and operate than the XD with only a grip safety. The XD has a particular benefit by only having the grip safety. If I, for some reason, need to handle the XD while it is loaded I can place my thumb on the back of the slide so that the grip safety is still active. Yet it makes off hand drills (simulating an injured strong arm) easier. Drawing with my left hand and hitting a thumb safety is slower than drawing and simply acquiring a firing grip.

 

[sparky241]

a glock was my first carry gun and will always be my carry gun. i have practiced with the glock, if i change to another weapon that has a safety i would have to relearn everything involving drawing and firing all over again unless i just didn't use the safety.

 

[Hooker]

a glock was my first carry gun and will always be my carry gun. i have practiced with the glock, if i change to another weapon that has a safety i would have to relearn everything involving drawing and firing all over again unless i just didn't use the safety.

+1

Every step in between point and fire is just another step where something can go wrong.

 

[XtremeVel]

Also, any time you see someone reference safeties as slow or an extra step it is safe to assume that they have not adequately trained with a safety equipped pistol.

That was my only issue as not choosing to carry a weapon with a external safety... I will admit you hit the nail on the head also about training. I have not trained with such a weapon, and also admit really need to take some training. But saying that, I also know myself well. I know even with training, if I feel there is still the slightest 1% chance I could possibly flub it up in a stressful situation, I would still prefer something lacking that external safety.