F-Class Caliber Suggestions

[sloughfoot]

John you remember State Championship match at Atterbury about 10 years ago? We were all struggling with the wind changes at 500 yards with our match rifles. I and many others could not keep up with the wind.

The Junior service rifle shooter from Michigan stood up after his 20 clean shots and said "that was easy". A bunch of us wanted to strangle him.

He was the junior champ that year. Many of us marveled at his performance. It was Nick Till. A fine young man and amazing service rifle shooter

Maybe the OP is another Nick Till. Then we will be crying...and marveling. And waiting for the day he screws up. Maybe there is a magic caliber that he will discover.

 

[natdscott]

Faine, just relax, let the internet crap go over your head, and get out to a match, even if it means borrowing equipment.

I think you will find that we are a decent group of people formed of EXCELLENT individuals, and we don't care if it takes you 10 GD years to get the rifle built; as long as we're still shooting, you'll still be welcome.

We don't operate on the internet, we deal in real bullets on a real range, and we fling VERY REAL BS around at each other all the time. It's a riot, and if I'm not there, I'm sure it's even better!

But I do tend to agree, some more sense of humility and/or humor may be useful to you. There's 2 lifetimes of information to be had from the men & women in the pits and on the lines, but if you get up on the wrong side of the bed, they--and I, to a lesser extent--am as likely to clamp the old jaw shut on you forever as we are to tell you anything useful.

It's simple. Relax, and be one of the good guys, even if you're a girl. Also, don't mess with Sue...she'll kick your ass.

-Nate

 

[Faine]

My skin is plenty thick, comes with the territory when you're overweight. It's just the one thing that gets me going when someone you don't know says something that implies your untruthful or lacking of intent to the point of dishonesty. I've been assured Sloughfoot didn't mean anything by it and that he's a knowledgeable and helpful person which is why I'm still posting in this thread, so it's time to get back on topic and leave this business behind us.

I may go to a match or two, time permitting but I won't shoot, I have nothing to shoot at ranged matches at the moment and every dollar I spend that's not accounted for in my budget means I will have to wait that much longer to do what I ultimately want to do in the long run which is go to matches with my own rifle, and compete and have fun and meet new people and explore the US while shooting most everywhere I go.

 

[42769vette]

I may go to a match or two, time permitting but I won't shoot, I have nothing to shoot at ranged matches at the moment.

I said the same thing once. Someone shot me a message saying "show up, and Ill have a rifle there for you to shoot". I went to my first match thinking "this is a competition, everyone is the enemy". Its just my mentality. My jaw dropped when I got there, and the "enemy" was doing everything they could to help me, and make me better.

This is definitely a case where typing did not show meaning. Ive meet Sloughtfoot, and Faine, and they would get along fine in real life.

 

[17 squirrel]

I said the same thing once. Someone shot me a message saying "show up, and Ill have a rifle there for you to shoot". I went to my first match thinking "this is a competition, everyone is the enemy". Its just my mentality. My jaw dropped when I got there, and the "enemy" was doing everything they could to help me, and make me better.

This is definitely a case where typing did not show meaning. Ive meet Sloughtfoot, and Faine, and they would get along fine in real life.

Yep... Alan and Slooghfoot dont know meeeeeeeeeee. But I know who they both are. I don't shoot many matches anymore but I will say the same as Alan, if you need a rifle and ammo , let me know, most likely I would be glad to loan you equipment.
And be sure all the other husky guys will wiggle over and be glad to make room for another fat guy.
So go forth and let people know your going to show up and the free wealth of knowledge will flow and the meeting of new friends will most certainly happen.

 

[Faine]

Yep... Alan and Slooghfoot dont know meeeeeeeeeee. But I know who they both are. I don't shoot many matches anymore but I will say the same as Alan, if you need a rifle and ammo , let me know, most likely I would be glad to loan you equipment.
And be sure all the other husky guys will wiggle over and be glad to make room for another fat guy.
So go forth and let people know your going to show up and the free wealth of knowledge will flow and the meeting of new friends will most certainly happen.

That's what I want out of it. Right now time is my enemy, work is just too busy and getting ready for peak isn't making it any easier. Of course when peak hits it just gets harder, so it won't be until next Feb/Mar until I have enough free time to do anything other than a quick meet ups with my family. After that though I should be able to do all kinds of things until next Aug/Sep and the cycle will start all over again.

 

[Leo]

Unlike NFL football, it sportsmanship is still part of National Match Highpower. I was at Camp Perry for the Nationals, a serious competitor and in contention for the medals. I broke a sling swivel in the 300 yard prone rapid event. In between matches, three guys went through their own stuff to find a swivel that would work for my rifle. Yes, they had every intention on beating me, but they wanted to beat me fair and square. (and yes, I was able to leave there with medals)

At the same time, it is classy for all participants to have as much of their own ducks in a row as possible. It IS a competiton. Everyone there has invested serious time and money and done extensive preperation. Be respectful. If you are new, try to learn all you can, be flawless as far as safety, and do not expect to win a medal the first time out.

Sloughfoot and 'vette are guys I trust next to me at any match.

 

[natdscott]

Well what am I, Leo?! Chopped liver?!



-Nate

 

[Leo]

Well what am I, Leo?! Chopped liver?!



-Nate

Your a good man, for sure, I just never want to have to compete against you, especially in offhand. Once you get that determined look on your face, you are a bullseye machine.

 

[Faine]

So out of curiosity, 6.5cm. Is it a flavor of the month or is it here to stay? From what I am finding it's pretty much the .260 in a slightly smaller package that doesn't have the magazine feed issues of the .260 when larger bullets are used. It seems with bullets 140gr and less .260 is superior but anything larger and the 6.5 cm is better if I'm r3ading this right.

 

[42769vette]

Ive ran both, and you will be hard pressed to find a diffrence between the two. Neither is right, neither is wrong.

 

[jrh84]

So out of curiosity, 6.5cm. Is it a flavor of the month or is it here to stay? From what I am finding it's pretty much the .260 in a slightly smaller package that doesn't have the magazine feed issues of the .260 when larger bullets are used. It seems with bullets 140gr and less .260 is superior but anything larger and the 6.5 cm is better if I'm r3ading this right.

You very well may have done more research on the subject, but from my limited homework, I'd pick the 6.5 CM over the 260 (at least for my intended uses). 6.5 CM is a shorter, but more efficient case design than the 260. Both end up being basically twins ballistically. The 260 is longer and has a bit more capacity, but like you already said, has to be single loaded when using long bullets seated way out. For F-Class, this is no big deal, as you'll be single feeding anyway. If you have any desire to run out of a magazine, it feels like 6.5 CM has the advantage. 6.5 CM has good factory ammo available if you don't handload (or don't want to), but it's all but a given that you'll be handloading for F-Class. 260 has Lapua brass available, whereas 6.5 CM has Hornady and maybe Norma. I've heard of a couple of questionable batches of Hornady brass, but for the most part, it's been all positive, especially for the price. Rumors are going around about Lapua looking into making 6.5 CM brass sometime soon.

I think it's past flavor of the month status, and is getting more and more popular every day. You'll hear lots of folks mentioning that it's becoming the "new .308." I'm not sure it's quite there yet, but it's getting a lot of attention/publicity lately as a fantastic all around cartridge.

Just for further discussion, if this is a dedicated F-class rifle, why not 6.5-284? Lapua makes brass, and it's readily available. Cabela's almost always has it on the shelf, and plenty of online retailers always have it in stock. It's around $1.15/each for Lapua or Norma, and a $1.06/each for Hornady. I've not shot an F-class match (yet), but I know the top dogs are after FPS of velocity they can get, and the extra 150-200 fps or so you get with a 6.5-284 over the 6.5 CM or 260 is worth it for the reduction in wind drift, if you can tolerate the reduced barrel life.

6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma) | Rifle Brass | Brass

 

[Faine]

You very well may have done more research on the subject, but from my limited homework, I'd pick the 6.5 CM over the 260 (at least for my intended uses). 6.5 CM is a shorter, but more efficient case design than the 260. Both end up being basically twins ballistically. The 260 is longer and has a bit more capacity, but like you already said, has to be single loaded when using long bullets seated way out. For F-Class, this is no big deal, as you'll be single feeding anyway. If you have any desire to run out of a magazine, it feels like 6.5 CM has the advantage. 6.5 CM has good factory ammo available if you don't handload (or don't want to), but it's all but a given that you'll be handloading for F-Class. 260 has Lapua brass available, whereas 6.5 CM has Hornady and maybe Norma. I've heard of a couple of questionable batches of Hornady brass, but for the most part, it's been all positive, especially for the price. Rumors are going around about Lapua looking into making 6.5 CM brass sometime soon.

I think it's past flavor of the month status, and is getting more and more popular every day. You'll hear lots of folks mentioning that it's becoming the "new .308." I'm not sure it's quite there yet, but it's getting a lot of attention/publicity lately as a fantastic all around cartridge.

Just for further discussion, if this is a dedicated F-class rifle, why not 6.5-284? Lapua makes brass, and it's readily available. Cabela's almost always has it on the shelf, and plenty of online retailers always have it in stock. It's around $1.15/each for Lapua or Norma, and a $1.06/each for Hornady. I've not shot an F-class match (yet), but I know the top dogs are after FPS of velocity they can get, and the extra 150-200 fps or so you get with a 6.5-284 over the 6.5 CM or 260 is worth it for the reduction in wind drift, if you can tolerate the reduced barrel life.

6.5mm-284 Winchester (Norma) | Rifle Brass | Brass

I've reasearched 6.5x284 but the one thing that really concerns me with it is barrel wear. I've heard good things about it, but the one bad thing is that barrels are a lot more expensive, and while I don't mind a barrel swap I want a reasonable life out of it and that caliber from everything I've read just eats barrels.

 

[42769vette]

I've reasearched 6.5x284 but the one thing that really concerns me with it is barrel wear. I've heard good things about it, but the one bad thing is that barrels are a lot more expensive, and while I don't mind a barrel swap I want a reasonable life out of it and that caliber from everything I've read just eats barrels.

Its all a big balancing act.

Barrel life
vs
Ballistics

Recoil
vs
Velocity

etc, etc, etc

You just have to find a happy medium your comfortable with.

 

[natdscott]

The -284 is certainly not easy on barrels, but it's not exactly a .264 Win Mag either. It would be normal to see 1,000 rounds from a premium cut barrel before it starts opening up too badly. So, for that being said, start doing the math on how many 40-50 round matches and practices you can shoot on one...it's still quite a few.

You could probably figure on a barrel per season.

-Nate

 

[sht4brnz]

If you are seriously limited on time and funds, I would suggest you stick with the 6.5 Creedmore or .308. You can find excellent factory match ammo for around or below $1 a round. You can find an excellent competitive rifle minus scope for around $1,000 (Savage LRP or Ruger PRS). Both rifles will get you to 1000 yards easily. Both can be applied to other uses besides F-Class if you decide it's not your cup of tea.
My experience is that I have invested a lot of time and money in reloading and round development. Reloading for long range is an animal of it's own kind that can quickly turn into a beast, especially if you have a perfectionist disorder.
A good example would be to watch David Tubb or just type in 'match rifle ammo' on Youtube and decide if you think you'd enjoy the processes involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUnrYp0NH38

 

[Hohn]

What do you guys think of 7mm-08 shooting a high BC bullet like a 162 a-max?

 

[42769vette]

What do you guys think of 7mm-08 shooting a high BC bullet like a 162 a-max?

IMO you could do worse, but you could do better aswell.

 

[Leo]

What do you guys think of 7mm-08 shooting a high BC bullet like a 162 a-max?

Really double check the twist rates. Typically, the 7mm-08 will not have a fast enough twist. ( and the case may not hold enough powder to get the velocity you want) I built a 7mm express rifle with the intention of shooting the heavy AMax. I even ordered 1200 AMAX bullets of a single lot when I ordered the barrel blank. The twist I used was a good twist for a conventional bullet. It would not stabilize the Amax. Calling Hornady confirmed it, the Amax needed a least 1 inch faster twist. The Rifle shot the Sierras fine even though the B.C. was not as high. It took a long time to sell those Hornady bullets.

 

[sloughfoot]

Wind. Wind reading ability. Nothing else matters. As long as your bullet can penetrate the target and get scored at 1000 yards. The High
Master can get more out of the 6 mm creedmore or whatever. New shooters just need to make their newbie mistakes on "a rifle".

Caliber doesn't matter much. Mauser action in .308 has won many matches. Don't agonize over it. Just get out there and shoot.

I am hoping this is not hurting any feelings. I get accused of being tactless. Maybe I am.....I have difficulty with the written word. I learned to write in the police academy. Not an excuse. It just is.