Face to Face Sales

[Bunnykid68]

Actually if you were the original buyer they will still come ask you about it no matter what kind of paper trail you have. How would they know you have a bill of sale?

Then you just say, "I sold it legally on [this date]"

I can make up a bill of sale and say I sold it to this guy James Mears Obituary: View James Mears's Obituary by Courier Press

last year

 

[KoopaKGB]

When folks request to see an IN DL theres a certain comfort in knowing that the person is "valid" or at least as documents to claim as such ie IN DL and or LTCH. Yes these could be forged but it can be assumed at least you're not selling to a crack head who is about to rob a liquor store with your handgun that you purchased from an FFL a week ago. Sure said crack head could have these documents too (however unlikely). Or this guy might give sell it to a criminal but you can then honestly say that you sold it to what you believed to be an regular person and not a criminal.

It reminds me of a scene in the movie "Lord of War" where the main character is about to sell some guns to these thugs that he KNOWS are to be used to murder innocent lives. He of course sells the guns, the bad guys use them to murder the village and the main character walks away seeing dollar signs. Morally he's been corrupted. Of course this is fiction but you get the point.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

When folks request to see an IN DL theres a certain comfort in knowing that the person is "valid" or at least as documents to claim as such ie IN DL and or LTCH. Yes these could be forged but it can be assumed at least you're not selling to a crack head who is about to rob a liquor store with your handgun that you purchased from an FFL a week ago. Sure said crack head could have these documents too (however unlikely). Or this guy might give sell it to a criminal but you can then honestly say that you sold it to what you believed to be an regular person and not a criminal.

It reminds me of a scene in the movie "Lord of War" where the main character is about to sell some guns to these thugs that he KNOWS are to be used to murder innocent lives. He of course sells the guns, the bad guys use them to murder the village and the main character walks away seeing dollar signs. Morally he's been corrupted. Of course this is fiction but you get the point.

Wow. So by not checking someone's license to operate a motor vehicle or state issued permission slip that is just a pink piece of paper I am going to turn into an illegal gun dealer selling weapons to drug dealers and mass murderers?

Been watching a little too much MSNBC/ABC have we?

And why on earth are you drawing moral conclusions about real life from a crappy Nick Cage movie?

Dude, if a guy looks or acts shady I'm not selling him a gun (or ANYTHING of mine) regardless of what documents he has. Likewise, if I have no reason to believe otherwise after I ASK him if he is legal to buy a firearm in Indiana the deal is done.

A friend of mine sold a gun to a dealer and it still wound up at a crime scene, and yes, the police still called him and asked what he knew about it. No bill of sale or anything, he just told the police who he sold it to.

 

[I.A.]

Actually if you were the original buyer they will still come ask you about it no matter what kind of paper trail you have. How would they know you have a bill of sale?

Then you just say, "I sold it legally on [this date]"

I can make up a bill of sale and say I sold it to this guy James Mears Obituary: View James Mears's Obituary by Courier Press

last year

You are both correct, but at least you would be giving the police a lead to follow up on rather than having the current lead stop at you... Even if they used the identity of a dead man, that is something they can work with. Maybe they used that identity to purchase other things? You are still giving them an avenue to pursue that leads them past you rather than just shrugging your shoulders when questioned. CYA

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You are both correct, but at least you would be giving the police a lead to follow up on rather than having the current lead stop at you... Even if they used the identity of a dead man, that is something they can work with. Maybe they used that identity to purchase other things? You are still giving them an avenue to pursue that leads them past you rather than just shrugging your shoulders when questioned. CYA

The best way is to not talk to police. Ever.*

If it was not your gun at the time then what do you have to prove?








*That is what your lawyer is for.

 

[I.A.]

The best way is to not talk to police. Ever.*

If it was not your gun at the time then what do you have to prove?








*That is what your lawyer is for.

I can see where you are coming from. It's typically not a perspective I am used to though, since I come from a family with over 95 years of combined LE experience.

Don't talk to the "Police" is a difficult concept when you are the "Police" :P

 

[Bunnykid68]

I can see where you are coming from. It's typically not a perspective I am used to though, since I come from a family with over 95 years of combined LE experience.

Don't talk to the "Police" is a difficult concept when you are the "Police" :P

Ask any police officer what they do when they start getting questioned by another LEO

 

[I.A.]

Ask any police officer what they do when they start getting questioned by another LEO

I was always taught that if I didn't do anything wrong, I should have nothing to hide.. But to each his own I guess?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

No.Dont see the point.

My thoughts are this: if one needs a bill of sale to comfort oneself ex post facto, maybe one shouldn't sell it to that person to start.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I was always taught that if I didn't do anything wrong, I should have nothing to hide.. But to each his own I guess?

There is a reason when a cop is being investigated about anything they lawyer up, they know better than to answer questions from another cop.

 

[Sylvain]

My thoughts are this: if one needs a bill of sale to comfort oneself ex post facto, maybe one shouldn't sell it to that person to start.

Yep.If I feel that something is wrong I dont sell the gun, that's simple, I dont sell it anyway and ask for a bill of sale in case I sold it to the wrong guy.

Those sells are all about trust and gut feelings in my opinion.

Your buyer can very easily show fake ID and LTCH, and sign the bill of sale with a fake name.

 

[richardraw316]

Yep.If I feel that something is wrong I dont sell the gun, that's simple, I dont sell it anyway and ask for a bill of sale in case I sold it to the wrong guy.

Those sells are all about trust and gut feelings in my opinion.

Your buyer can very easily show fake ID and LTCH, and sign the bill of sale with a fake name.

maybe it has nothing to do with the person you sell it too.
i sell it to a reputable person who has givin me no reason to think he is up to no good. he buys and cares for it like a good person and then one day sells it. to Who? you did the right thing, asked all the right questions. but the person you sell it to could sell that weapon to anybody. the police will call you. it would be nice to at least have something to show them. it does not matter if the use a fake name or id. you believed it was their name and you have evidence that you sold it. your out of hot water. bill of sale is to cover both parties. now the person you sold it to has to come up with an a date, a name, a discreption, of a person he sold a weapon to possibly years before. how do you remember all that?

Every private sale of a firearm should be made with a bill of sale.

 

[Sylvain]

maybe it has nothing to do with the person you sell it too.
i sell it to a reputable person who has givin me no reason to think he is up to no good. he buys and cares for it like a good person and then one day sells it. to Who? you did the right thing, asked all the right questions. but the person you sell it to could sell that weapon to anybody. the police will call you. it would be nice to at least have something to show them. it does not matter if the use a fake name or id. you believed it was their name and you have evidence that you sold it. your out of hot water. bill of sale is to cover both parties. now the person you sold it to has to come up with an a date, a name, a discreption, of a person he sold a weapon to possibly years before. how do you remember all that?

Every private sale of a firearm should be made with a bill of sale.

You should be able to trade guns like you trades any other tools.
Im glad no such thing is required by law.

 

[richardraw316]

i never said there should be a law. just a guide line we all live by.
Tools? tools have jobs. a big hammer can kill somebody. but its job is to hit a nail.
a gun is a tool. its job is to kill. you arguement has its flaws, but i understand what you are saying.
you plan is to wash your hands of it as soon as you sell it. i would rather sleep at night knowing i put forth a little effort to ensure the person who bought my weapon is a good person. and that if some chance they are not, that i am covered. you dont seem to care who you sell a deadly weapon too? criminal dont wear shirts that say criminal on them. saying you go by your gut is just asking for trouble.
it reminds me of oc vs cc. just because you have the right dont make it right. you are taking advantage of a law, and if enough of the wrong people notice, the law will be changed and then we all suffer.

 

[ATM]

...it reminds me of oc vs cc. just because you have the right dont make it right. you are taking advantage of a law, and if enough of the wrong people notice, the law will be changed and then we all suffer.

Why you do this?

 

[pirate]

you dont seem to care who you sell a deadly weapon too? criminal dont wear shirts that say criminal on them. saying you go by your gut is just asking for trouble.

He did say he cares by using his own judgement and not some bill of sale you think will help when an investigator shows up. The bill of sale isn't a de facto bad guy radar. It won't protect you from questioning any more than your word during an investigation. A courtroom would tear that unofficial document to shreds during proceedings if they pushed it that far. What you say during questioning will determine your next position.

 

[Bunnykid68]

He did say he cares by using his own judgement and not some bill of sale you think will help when an investigator shows up. The bill of sale isn't a de facto bad guy radar. It won't protect you from questioning any more than your word during an investigation. A courtroom would tear that unofficial document to shreds during proceedings if they pushed it that far. What you say during questioning will determine your next position.

What will protect me is when I tell them to go pound sand because I sold it years ago and no I do not remember to whom I sold it. Arrest and charge me or go away.

 

[richardraw316]

Why you do this?

do what?
oc? absolutely not.
sell a weapon with no paper work. Same.

 

[richardraw316]

He did say he cares by using his own judgement and not some bill of sale you think will help when an investigator shows up. The bill of sale isn't a de facto bad guy radar. It won't protect you from questioning any more than your word during an investigation. A courtroom would tear that unofficial document to shreds during proceedings if they pushed it that far. What you say during questioning will determine your next position.

if you think you will remeber the name of the guy you sold a gun to ten years after it happened, you are fooling yourself.
ten years i will still have the paper with that persons name on it.

 

[ATM]

do what?

Tried to inject some anti-OC failure into this thread. That can't possibly help you make a point.



I was off eating a sammich when I sensed the disturbance.