Facebook conversation, am I doing ok?

[CSK22]

To give you background, he is a former drug dealer, no criminal history, super nice guy, just has some liberal view points.

His original status:

so.... gun control..? we dont blame the guns but we blame pit bulls......where do we really stand? i would only hope that we look at the whole story w intellect and not jus b defensive about it..... we can own hunting weapons and personal protection guns but y do we need an AK? mac 10? etc.. And it should take more than 3 days and a... signature to get any gun!

ME:

I know you have a rough story brother, but, I'm not sure I follow the "not blame guns but blame pitbulls" line, people kill people, guns don't, guns are just devices that can be used. Guns are inanimate objects, they don't kill anyone. Same... as pitbulls

Pit bulls don't have to be mean an nasty, but can be trained that way by humans...so by that logic do you ban pitbulls because humans can't treat them with respect like they can't guns? No.

More people are killed each year by knives, fire, and doctors then guns. Your walking a dangerous line there, take away guns, and you take away more and more freedom. The more freedom you take away the less we have, and the more government control we have. And the more government control we have the LESS control we have. And if you take away guns, I'd also take a way cars, boats, cigarettes, alcohol, knives, batteries, razors, bikes, motorcycles, swimming pools(death pits).

More children die every year by drowning in unattended mop buckets than die by firearms left out (negligently) in the reach of children. Do we ban mothers for being forgetful for not putting the bucket away after cleaning? Or do we ban buckets? OR do we educate them.....

I carry a firearm because I don't trust the police to protect my family/friends/loved ones in time, I don't trust the group of 6 guys on the corner, they never have come on time for me. I will PROTECT MYSELF.

Eliminating guns is NOT the answer, the answer is societies ethics and morality.

I will not have my guns banned just because other people can't handle them. The fact is if you ban guns, the criminal will just find something else to use. And in fact, the criminals already mostly use other weapons.

Sincerely,
Held up by a bowie knife, and assaulted by bloods and left in the middle of ohio street downtown indianapolis to bleed to death(NO GUNS) before I got my license to carry

HIM:

not saying ban guns but stricter gun policy..yes we have freedoms & no one is trying to take that way just having a 30round clip in a hand gun..why do u need that many rounds in a hand gun?? Also ur right education is a huge factor & mayb that should b a requirement to carry a gun. Also @least w/ the care of children we have CPS..we don't have a WPS to make sure guns r out of the reach of children & not stolen..

ME:

Whats wrong with 30 round magazines? That's like saying we should ban pit bulls and keep golden retrievers. Both dogs, just different temperaments so you have to treat them differently. The problem is, the moment you start banning things, l...ike 30 round magazines, you start banning more and more. It becomes, 20, then 10, then 5, then 1, then your just carrying around metal with a trigger. Why do you not need so many rounds? Not everyone buying these magazines are going out trying to murder 30 people, I've used them to practice in a handgun so I don't have to reload as often. That is the reason for those magazines in existence in handguns.

I'm fine with education, and I think its a great idea.

We do have a WPS its called the ATF, and CPS is corrupt as ever anyway. 5 years in social services has taught me that.

But as always morality and people's hearts are the problem. At the end of the day, any argument aside, if someone has evil in their hearts, they will do wrong with whatever device, or bare fist they have. Gotta go at their hearts!

HIS FRIEND:

I'm sry but when u got kids killing kids with guns they never shouldn't had in the first place there's a problem I'm glad this dudes got his permit but what about the thousands of other ass holes that don't if there wasn't a firearm problem... the cops wouldn't need guns and u wouldn't feel like u needed to carry one I mean he'll u a cop cus if not that's just one more problem gun in the hands of a peson that thinks they need one i mean he'll your 100% more lkely to shoot someone for no reason or accident than any of us that don't carry and that's a big problem cus now u can shoot somebody cus u get jumpy because a permit doesn't make u mentally stable when it comes to fear

ME:

So because there are "thousands of other ass holes" I should be left defenseless? Like I said, gun or not, people who plan to do wrong, will use whatever they can to hurt someone. Knife, fist, rock, water, fire, you name it. Please read all... of my posts, not just the parts you disagree with.

And don't call me jumpy or paranoid, I learn by experience.

And why are you saying I'm 100% more likely to shoot someone for no reason now? What does that even mean?

HIM:

ATF is doing a ****ty job..CPS yes is corrupt..but Golden Retriever compared to a pitbull?? Right to Bare Arm was written when a gun took average of 20 mins to load..but u avoid the question didn't ask what is better but y we need 30 rounds in a handgun unless ur in the miltary, zombie's attack or ur a horrible ****ing shot..or a 9 yr old gunning down ur classmates bc they made fun of u..mayb we should also b working on getting kids back to the mentality to fight w/ fists not guns.that death is final & The consequences that go w/ killing another human being..

ME:

I didn't avoid any questions Kailei, I explained why I used them. Calling me a bad shot isn't going to solve anything.

And again we go back to education, which we both agree is a fine place to be!

You all are starting to get extremely disrespectful here, I'm talking, your arguing and using profanity. Keep it civil please

Am I talking to a brick wall??? I feel like I'm getting no where faaaasttt..... I don't want to just cut off the conversation, but while I'm open to their opinions, its becoming clear they aren't open to mine.

Help?

 

[CSK22]

Also, I feel like this is because of the whole 30 rounder incident.... if not it wouldn't have come up. The gentlemen is a proud pitbull owner as well...

 

[PistolBob]

Who do you think you are even debating with? The guy is obviously uneducated, inexperienced, and in denial. You said he's a FORMER drug dealer...that makes him pretty stupid in my book.

You're wasting plenty of cycles on this idiot.

 

[CSK22]

His friend:

That means u carry a gun I don't chances r 100% higher for u to shoot someone than I am and if your not trained to handle your emotions your more likely to shoot when u don't need too I'm not trying to be disrespectful just prove the point that if there wasn't a gun problem u wouldn't feel the need to carry one that's all u said there isn't a gun problem but there is and that needs to be addressed point blank

Me:

Ok ________, I see what you are saying, and I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything I'm just expressing my feelings. I disagree still, I carry a gun because I don't trust people, not guns. I have no issues with my emotions, but thank you for judging incorrectly anyway.

I never said there isn't a gun problem, there will forever be gun problems as long as there are people problems. And with people problems come's knife problems, car problems, fist problems. My problem is morality.

Do you understand? The problem is PEOPLE. Not guns, not knives, not cars, not hands, not pencils, not food, its people.

 

[CSK22]

Who do you think you are even debating with? The guy is obviously uneducated, inexperienced, and in denial. You said he's a FORMER drug dealer...that makes him pretty stupid in my book.

You're wasting plenty of cycles on this idiot.

Yeah I know, I figured he'd be more receptive to a conversation based of previous talks we've had and I was wrong. I also didn't think his friend who clearly never graduated preschool would join in either.

I didn't feel like not having the conversation, because whats the point in not standing up for what is right? I figured it was worth a try to support my cause in a respectful manner.

Regardless of his background, he shares the same views many antigun people share

 

[BlisterPac]

Tell him that you'll have to agree to disagree and the conversation is pointless until he VOLUNTARILY agrees to put a 55 mph govenor on his car/motor vehicle - after all, using his logic, why does someone need a car that goes any faster? It is one of leading causes of death of youth/children (if not the most).

I would then thank him for time and consideration and consider the matter closed.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Do not engage in these conversations on social networking sites. I don't think I need to tell you why. In fact, I will be committing "facebook suicide" before this weekend is over. I recommend it to everyone.

 

[CSK22]

Yeah another friend of his joined in, then we went back and forth before I called him out on being disrespectful of my opinions and that I was merely trying to have a conversation. Unfortunately it seems those with common sense can exhibit it through communication and their views, those without it are stubborn and disrespectful.

 

[Buckaroo]

Four times more children die from accidental drowning than accidental shooting deaths each year. We should ban pools and swimming!

 

[CSK22]

Four times more children die from accidental drowning than accidental shooting deaths each year. We should ban pools and swimming!

Those are the kinds of analogies i brought up, to which they didn't understand, not could they relate them.

 

[jsharmon7]

Faulty logic + even worse grammar and spelling = waste of your time.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

I had a class in high school on "current issues" years ago. When the teacher asked all of us to choose a controversial topic to debate with the class, I chose gun control. Everyone in the class made posters, and then each took our turn leading a group discussion on the issue we chose.

My class seemed to be fairly split on the issue of gun control, and most people seemed to have a determination in mind. It seems most people already have their minds made up on this issue, and are not open to debate - they are only open to argument.

The one and only point I think i DID get across, was when I used a real life situation instead of a hypothetical. Instead of saying, "Guns do not kill people, people kill people" - I asked the question "If our teacher had a handgun in his desk right now, and nobody knew about it but yourself - would this make you feel better or worse about your security?". Our teacher was the most anti-gun in the class, very pacifist, and I think that actually made people think about the issue.

The issue in my mind is: "Does someone who does not want to hurt me, put me at risk by having a firearm"

And not: "Should firearms exist in our world"

The first one is rational, and the second one is an idealist argument that does not hold traction in our world.

I think that was the only time I have changed peoples minds on gun control, because most people have it made up and have already heard all the talking points. The majority of the time, people wait for you to finish an argument they have already heard, so they can express their pre-determined reaction.

When you pose a real world scenario, and show people that responsible ownership of guns is not the problem, SOMETIMES you can get people to think about it.

Otherwise, your wasting your breath.

I still dislike debating people on facebook, but that is just me. Most my friends carry guns anyway.

 

[CSK22]

@IncendiaryGunner, I also did a project about gun control on campus, while the professor was against it, he was nice enough to defend our "opinions". The class was not so thrilled, its just stubborn hearts who jump on bandwagons instead of understanding the true situations.


For sure guys, basically its boiled down to them calling me a bad communicator because I am too harsh with my wording.......sigh

My main concern was properly representing my side

 

[ihateiraq]

his names "Kailei". i could have told you this was a waste of time from the get go.

 

[littletommy]

Faulty logic + even worse grammar and spelling = waste of your time.

^^^this. Your friend and his "buddy", both sound like total morons. Why waste your time? And don't post on facebook anymore.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

his names "Kailei". i could have told you this was a waste of time from the get go.

[ syll. kai-lei, ka-il-ei ] The girl name Kailei is pronounced as KEY-L-AY †. Kailei is an English name of Celtic origin. Kailei is a variant of the name Kayley (English and Irish).


HAHAHA Girl name, no wonder he is upset.

 

[scottka]

Ban buckets? Classic!! haha

 

[Legba]

Do not engage in these conversations on social networking sites. I don't think I need to tell you why. In fact, I will be committing "facebook suicide" before this weekend is over. I recommend it to everyone.

Best advice right there. Pulled the plug 3 months ago.

 

[JDonhardt]

Asking for advice on winning an argument on Facebook = shame and failure.