Federal .45ACP Autopsy

[Dolton916]

OK I did a search and didn't see anything,

So was setting up my reloading area and decided to pull apart a few Federal .45's. Here's the thing, the box say's 230gr FMJ but all ten I pulled apart weighed 185gr. Is this unusual? Also decided to weigh the powder and found 2.2 grains per cartridge across the same ten samples. Does that seem low? Is this normal for factory ammo?

 

[Vamptepes]

Unless you know what powder is in it, its hard to say how much should be used. As you probably know different powders have differneg vmd's which in turn effect how much you use. As for the bullet, idk.

 

[rockhopper46038]

230gr marked boxes should NOT contain cartridges loaded with 185gr projectiles. That one might warrant a call to Federal. They might be interested in the lot number and date codes of those boxes.

 

[Dolton916]

Unless you know what powder is in it, its hard to say how much should be used. As you probably know different powders have differneg vmd's which in turn effect how much you use. As for the bullet, idk.

I don't know who's powder but I looked through all my info and the lowest grains I can find recommended regardless of bullet weight is 3.7grains for a WST Powder.
Please understand I'm not complaining, I'd just thought it seemed odd. I don't think 2.3gr of the Titegroup I'm using would even cycle my pistol.

Does anyone know who's powder federal uses?

 

[Vamptepes]

No not saying your complaing. Idk loads for 45. Just stating without knowing what powder it was we have no idea. Yes it does seem low to me but without having a book in fromt of me idk. Did you look at the loads for that grain of bullet. I assume you did. Still doesnt seem right though. where they fmj or defense rounds or what?

 

[Dolton916]

FMJ

 

[Leo]

just to throw out something. You are pretty sure that some other ammo did not get in a box marked "230 gr". The bullets came out way light on the scale. The powder came out way light on the scale. Is it possible that there is a problem with the scale? Most applicable powders are above 4 grains for a 230 grain bullet, and considerably more for a 185.

As far as non canister grade powders that manufacturers use. Even if you knew the exact powder type that was used for that box of ammo, the next box may be something else. The lab techs test the burn rates on each bulk powder purchase, and adjust accordingly. It would be impossible to really make that comparison at home.

 

[Dolton916]

I brought 150 rounds and just put the boxes in my ammo safe so if anything was changed it happened before me. I checked my electronic with the weights and double checked with my beam scale, both read the same. I'm going to weigh all the rounds in those boxes against a few boxes I have with a different lot number.

 

[XtremeVel]

FMJ

Initially I thought it was impossible, but I do see Federal does offer a 185gr FMJ but it is in the SWC profile for a match loading.... Is this what you have ? Lightest RN I know of in .451 dia is 200 gr...

Curious as to what got you to pull them.... Was there a reason you were suspicious ?

And to answer your initial question.... This would not be normal... I guess anything is possible from the factory, but my first guess would be someone pawned off some reloads as factory.... Regardless, I would not shoot them and would look more into it.

 

[Dolton916]

They're RN. I was setting up dies in a press and had pulled a few rounds to measure OAL. I was dialing in the powder drop, and was just curious as to how much powder was in these. I do .45 at 230gr FMJ, 4.5gr 1.25 OAL for the range with titegroup.
The federals shoot noticeably softer recoil wise so I was just curious. Know I know why.

 

[Jeremiah]

measure something of known value. good chance your scale is off.

 

[jedi]

measure something of known value. good chance your scale is off.

He already stated in post #8 he checked his electric scale with weights and also checked is beam scale and both are 'zeroed' and is still getting the low numbers for the bullets/powdered pulled.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I like the Federal ammo, but I did one time find myself in possession of two boxes straight off the Walmart shelf that said 115gr 9mm on the outside, but contained small primer 230gr .45ACP instead. I wasn't too upset about it, but it did make me have to switch guns at the very end of a class.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Okay...
1. Did you buy this ammo from a store or at the gunshow? Gunshow goons have been known to pack reloaded ammo into factory boxes and selling it as such.
2. Have you fired any of it? If it sounds and goes off like factory 230gr ball going 805-910 fps, then nothing wrong there. Leading me to...
3. Powder curiousity: Companies use propellant that we do not have access to. I pulled some factory Fiocchi .357 and found only 4 grains of mystery powder, but every round in the box was a romping stomping full power .357. They can formulate the powders they use for economy and thus can be more compact. Remember, they are loading millions of rounds a year, nothing compared to the paltry few thousand we do, the powder they use for economy of scale is FAR different than the canistered crap we get.
4. To people and their 185 grain confusion: yes, some manufacturers of component bullets make round nosed 185 gr stuff for .45. Kinda supports the potential for them being handloads and not factory ammo but we won't know that until question 1 is answered.

Lots of speculation around here. Occam's razor folks: Easiest explanation is usually the right one.

On the other hand: Working at a range on the weekends, EVERY panic that has occurred brought out the worst QC in ammo and arms I've ever seen.... I kinda agree with Rockhopper, maybe the factory bolluxed up and someone loaded the wrong hopper with the wrong bullet weight. Think about it: 99% of the people buying ammo would never go to the scientific extreme the OP did...

 

[Manatee]

Agree. My suspicion: gun show reloads.

 

[Dolton916]

Off The shelf at Walmart, All the federal I've bought, almost 2000 rounds in the last 6 weeks have fed and shot fine.

I also had one of my employees ask if it was possible the low powder charge was from perhaps the primer cavity filling with powder, I knocked the casing around and did not get anymore powder out of it though. Federal makes good range ammo and I reload the brass. I can only Imagine what the public would do if we had access to the powders they use! Like I said I've been loading at 4.5gr and cant tell these rounds from mine.

I've been looking for a good indoor chrony and I think I'll save a box of these for when I find one just to see.

 

[pdg45acp]

The only 185gr round nose bullet for 45acp that I've ever heard of is Berry's hollow base. Could that be what Federal loaded in these?