Female jogger vulnerable to attack

[StrayDog]

My sister lives in downtown Jacksonville Florida. She jogs in the same isolated location at the same time every morning. My dad went down to visit her over christmas and went to see where she was jogging. Apparently it is a very isolated park in the middle of Jacksonville, and while he was there he saw two homeless men walking out with bedrolls and backpacks. My sister is the type of girl you can't tell anything to and refuses to stop jogging there. The question is, what can she carry to protect herself? She jogs with headphones on, thus leaving herself easily blindsided. I seen a picture of the place and it is heavy brush with a narrow walkway. We have some ideas but I thought I would throw it out to you guys and see what kind of input you all had to offer.

She is not opposed to a gun, but is somewhat uncomfortable around handguns. There isn't anything that will help her if she gets knocked in the back of the head. She runs with a dog, but it wouldn't do more than watch it happen.

Any thoughts??

 

[HandK]

Taser!! the civilian model gives a 15 to 30 second blast!! it will give her plenty of time to get away!

 

[42769vette]

new dog

 

[Kirk Freeman]

As a survivor of an attempted mugging/who-knows-what (while unarmed, that's what I get for complying with the law), I've thought that, at least in my case, that OC would have been an optimal weapon if I could not have my pistols.*


*I realized what was happening just as the ambush started, my assailants had to attack me one at a time which is the only reason I was not hospitalized or worse.

Fox Labs International

 

[TFin04]

You need to fix the software before upgrading the hardware. This is a mindset issue, not an equipment problem.

 

[MTC]

You need to fix the software before upgrading the hardware. This is a mindset issue, not an equipment problem.

Carve that in stone.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Carve that in stone.

+1. Carve in stone that the lady needs to fix her "software." It was not bravery to walk through San Francisco's Barbary Coast with a gold nugget in the hand, it was just lack of wisdom. The lady is just not wise in her actions. If she must run there, and is prepared to learn to use firearms, here are a couple suggestions.

She could carry a subcompact in a waist belt or an ankle holster. The extra weight would actually increase the work she has to do for her run, like carrying additional weights. She may want to add an inert weight to the other foot for balance and to keep the legs in equal training.

The Taurus 709 Slim is one option. The Bersa Thunder (.380 or 9mm) is powerful and light.

 

[shibumiseeker]

+1. Might as well run naked.

Ya know, I generally might not be opposed to that if I could watch...

But in seriousness, I agree. She can have all of the hardware in the world but if she's not willing to work on situational awareness above all, and practice with her equipment then she might as well not have it. She's probably lulled into the false sense of security routine gives her. She's jogged that trail for a long time and nothing bad has happened yet... Unfortunately for a lot of people they can't see that it's not the odds, it's the consequences.

 

[Chuck26287]

I would talk to her and ask her to define what she thinks the risks are. Once she states them to you, ask her what the benefits are. What is she getting that makes the risk worth taking. Make her say out loud that she feels a scenic run (or whatever she likes about running here) is worth the risk of a physical attack. Sometimes hearing themselves say it makes them listen to it.

Keep in mind that in most cases carrying a weapon does nothing to reduce the risk inherent to the environment you have placed yourself in, it only improves your ability to respond to any threat that comes up as a result of the risk/environment. OC may provide a visual deterent, but that is offset by the assailant now knowing you are armed and their ability to adjust their plan if they do continue an attack. This can often escalate their attack to deadly force in a surprise attack right at the start.

A weapon is no substitute for wise and conscientious decision making.

That said, if she considers a taser or stun gun, be sure she has a LTCH if required. I believe IN law requires the LTCH for a Taser, but not for a stun gun. (Taser shoots electrodes on wires, stun gun requires physical contact and activation).

 

[Indy317]

Some people will never get it, they will never learn. I wouldn't spend a dime on her. Why throw away good money?

 

[Chuck26287]

Some people will never get it, they will never learn. I wouldn't spend a dime on her. Why throw away good money?

Oh I don't know... maybe because a father loves his daughter, or a brother loves his sister.

 

[indykid]

Try to get her to understand that if the worst happens to her, her death affects those around her. Explain to her how much she would be missed by others. Like it or not, death only affects the person dying for a split second. After that it affects everyone else. Think about that.

 

[Indy317]

Oh I don't know... maybe because a father loves his daughter, or a brother loves his sister.

I love my sister, and many other family members. I could buy a few of my relatives some decent guns, and they wouldn't carry them, wouldn't shoot them, and some would likely turn around and sell them. Not only that, someone who is so hard headed as to refuse to take safety into consideration isn't going to be any good with a weapon of any kind. In this example, if the girl really wants some sort of weapon to defend herself with, then she is admitting there is some danger given her choice location to run in. However, instead of changing her location, she wants to keep herself in danger. Seriously, weapons are not he end all, be all. She isn't in the weapon mindset, she isn't in the safety mindset. She might be there 50%, but that is just enough to get her hurt. Someone is going to take that pepper spray, gun, etc. away from her and use it against her, because from what I'm reading, she isn't "in the zone" so to speak.

My wife is of the same cloth. All she has to do is request to learn about guns and I would take her out, teach her the ropes, and we would leave a gun out for her to have access too in the home when I am away. Instead, she chooses to "hate guns," and rely solely on me for protection. She made a comment about getting her some pepper spray to replace the aged unit on her key chain. I asked her if she carried it as I told her, at the ready, while walking too and from her car. Of course not. I guess she thinks that if she is attacked by a rapist, she can call a time-out and he will wait till she digs the canister out of her massive purse?? Hell, half the time she is so unaware of it, I find it with the safety off!!

For these types of people, there is only one thing to say: You can't cure stupid.

 

[Chuck26287]

I love my sister, and many other family members. I could buy a few of my relatives some decent guns, and they wouldn't carry them, wouldn't shoot them, and some would likely turn around and sell them. Not only that, someone who is so hard headed as to refuse to take safety into consideration isn't going to be any good with a weapon of any kind. In this example, if the girl really wants some sort of weapon to defend herself with, then she is admitting there is some danger given her choice location to run in. However, instead of changing her location, she wants to keep herself in danger. Seriously, weapons are not he end all, be all. She isn't in the weapon mindset, she isn't in the safety mindset. She might be there 50%, but that is just enough to get her hurt. Someone is going to take that pepper spray, gun, etc. away from her and use it against her, because from what I'm reading, she isn't "in the zone" so to speak.

My wife is of the same cloth. All she has to do is request to learn about guns and I would take her out, teach her the ropes, and we would leave a gun out for her to have access too in the home when I am away. Instead, she chooses to "hate guns," and rely solely on me for protection. She made a comment about getting her some pepper spray to replace the aged unit on her key chain. I asked her if she carried it as I told her, at the ready, while walking too and from her car. Of course not. I guess she thinks that if she is attacked by a rapist, she can call a time-out and he will wait till she digs the canister out of her massive purse?? Hell, half the time she is so unaware of it, I find it with the safety off!!

For these types of people, there is only one thing to say: You can't cure stupid.

Wow, your wife is a very lucky woman... the odds of such a stupid woman finding such a loving man are up there with winning the lottery.

I was merely answering your question...

"Some people will never get it, they will never learn. I wouldn't spend a dime on her. Why throw away good money?"

To answer it again a little differently... because someone loves her enough to care more about her than their money.

 

[mercop]

More runners are attacked by dogs that bad guys. When I ran on the road I carried a stick, and advise others to do the same. Having it visible in the hand will ward off most human attacks.- George

 

[StrayDog]

Oh I don't know... maybe because a father loves his daughter, or a brother loves his sister.

-This is the true matter of the subject.-

She acknowledges it is dangerous. She is so hard headed though, she believes she is just going to whip some bums ***. She's lived in the city for several years and believes 'us country folk' just don't understand the big city the way she does. She just thinks she is too streetwise to get hurt. 'It is dangerous everywhere down here', is her argument (which it is) I think a lot of you are right when you say its her mindset, but that is not an easy fix. She's too stubborn to admit when she's wrong..

 

[theweakerbrother]

I was searching for something that would enable me to carry while I walk fast and maybe one day work my way back up to jogging. I found this on another forum:

#23 Jogger Concealment Gun Holster

But +1 to the people who mentioned the "software" problem. Over coming that is more than half the battle in this situation. Most people don't realize how important it is to carry unless they are in a situation where they needed it.

Firearms are the great equalizer. Not sure what your sister weighs but if she jogs, I assume she is in shape and in the normal female weight range... so 120-140 lb female vs two 200 lb attacks. What puts them on 'equal' footing? A finely stashed LCP, cell phone and maybe a fine can of mace.

 

[Indy317]

Wow, your wife is a very lucky woman... the odds of such a stupid woman finding such a loving man are up there with winning the lottery.

I don't care to marry a mirror image of myself. I am not the only one married to such a spouse either. I am also not blinded by love. My wife is like most others out there, sheep. I tell it like it is, that doesn't mean I don't love my wife, or think any less of her. She has chosen the way to live her life, and I mine. We are still compatible. Yes, I fear for her safety, but I don't dwell on that every day. To do so would do nothing but stress me out. I only can hope she never falls victim to a predator.

To answer it again a little differently... because someone loves her enough to care more about her than their money.

True, but that act of love sounds like it will only put her in a false sense of security. She is doing something very unsafe, has been told this, seems to even acknowledge this, yet continues to do it. I would wonder if buying her something to protect herself would just destroy whatever situational awareness she currently uses while running.

Oh well, like I said before, you can't cure stupid.

 

[IDCC]

Jacksonville is not the safest of cities. If she will listen at all to you have her go to Gun Gallery on Beach Bvld. It also has an indoor range with rentals. I used to work there.
Have her talk to Barbara the owner who is also a NRA instructor and also instructs the FL CCW classes. Her picture is in the top left picture of this link Gun Gallery Jax || Serving the Jacksonville area since 1993 If she is not there she needs to ask for Neil. If you have ever watched the Magpul DVD you will know who he is. Rob, Allen and Chris were there when I was. I only know the other employees from various gun forums. A large portion of our customers were and I am sure still are female. I loved having first time female shooters come in with there macho expert husbands or boyfriends and then with a little coaching completely outshoot them.

 

[IDCC]

-This is the true matter of the subject.-

She acknowledges it is dangerous. She is so hard headed though, she believes she is just going to whip some bums ***. She's lived in the city for several years and believes 'us country folk' just don't understand the big city the way she does. She just thinks she is too streetwise to get hurt. 'It is dangerous everywhere down here', is her argument (which it is) I think a lot of you are right when you say its her mindset, but that is not an easy fix. She's too stubborn to admit when she's wrong..

I lived there for 3 years. Before that I lived in New York, San Diego, Chicago and Norfolk/Little Creek VA. Jacksonville was the roughest of all those areas. Streetwise doesnt do you any good when you are surrounded by thugs. The bums are really bad, they aren't all old wasted guys either. Some of the professional "panhandlers" are young very tough and have hurt several JSO officers.