FFL license questions

[lovemachine]

What would one have to do to get a FFL license?
What kind of fees involved in getting and keeping one?

What other requirements does one have to follow? Do you need a building? Stuff like that...

If you had your FFL, are you actually able to make a little extra money on the side? Or is it just one of those things that's not worth having?

 

[IndySSD]

...... LM.....


Here, let me google that for you....

Oh and the fee's are listed on the application.....

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5310-12.pdf

 

[Scutter01]

There is an entire article in the INGO FAQ that goes through the entire process in detail.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...6185-ingunowners_faqs_sticky.html#post1771317

 

[lovemachine]

There is an entire article in the INGO FAQ that goes through the entire process in detail.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...6185-ingunowners_faqs_sticky.html#post1771317

I had no idea that was in there. Thanks.

 

[IndySSD]

I've seriously considered looking into getting a FFL... I think it would be worth the ~67$ per year just for convenience factor of my own purchases alone, aside from being able to do transfers for folks at a reasonable rate...

 

[lovemachine]

I didnt see the $67 a year.

I skimmed thru the link Scutter gave. Not sure if it's worth it yet.

 

[IndySSD]

I didnt see the $67 a year.

I skimmed thru the link Scutter gave. Not sure if it's worth it yet.

200 $ for a 3 year license = about 67 $ a year... ish...


It's listed on the link I posted above..... Pay attention young padiwan!

 

[lovemachine]

I said I skimmed thru it. I'll read it in depth later.

I can only do so much while I'm running the Lathe

 

[Scutter01]

You can't have a "kitchen FFL" anymore. You have to be running an actual business for profit. The ATF has been very clear on that over the last few years. They don't want you having an FFL just to enhance your own collection.

I will no longer have to pay FFL fees for firearms that I have transferred in and it’s convenient because they can ship them directly to me.
-Although this may be convenient, remember that you’re still paying a use tax (or you should be) on each of these firearms as they are being taken out of your inventory for your personal use. In addition, this cannot be your only reason for opening a firearms business (i.e. FFL) as the BATFE requires certify that you are applying with the intent of making a profit. In other words, actually running a business and not just to enhance your own collection.

Also, from that FAQ entry:

your initial financial out-of-pocket expenses (before ever purchasing a firearm) will run between $400 and $4,000+ (depending on the size of safe, type of surveillance equipment, license fees, LLC Fees, etc)

 

[mjrducky]

I said I skimmed thru it. I'll read it in depth later.

I can only do so much while I'm running the Bath

There I fixed it for you

 

[jeremy]

curious...

 

[IndySSD]

You can't have a "kitchen FFL" anymore. You have to be running an actual business for profit. The ATF has been very clear on that over the last few years. They don't want you having an FFL just to enhance your own collection.
Also, from that FAQ entry:

curious...

^^ This was my reaction to Scutter's post as well.. ^^

I'm curious about the actual "out of pocket cost" for someone who already has video surveillance on my property and firearms lockup who has a TID # for a LLC already?

The other potential reasoning I considered for getting a FFL was so that I could list my wife on it and use it as supplemental income as she would be doing the paperwork and book keeping while I would be the "sales and delivery" person...

 

[Naptown]

There are several FFL holders rocking out of their homes that I have visited. Maybe they will weigh in...

 

[Jake46184]

What Scutter posted regarding a "kitchen FFL" is correct. I held a FFL and sold guns in Indiana for 18 years. When I started, a long time ago, it was fairly easy to operate out of your home (I didn't, and for reasons listed in Scutter's linked info, it's a terrible idea.) Today, it is nearly impossible to get a FFL with the intent of operating out of your home. You'll need to have a business address and be able to demonstrate that you intend to operate a business for profit. Getting a FFL just to avoid transfer fees, and to do transfers, isn't going to happen. The only ones left doing so are the ones who have had a license for years and keep it current. To get one today, you're going to have to organize a business through the state, rent/buy a business location (and your landlord, if there is one, must provide a letter to the ATF stating that they know you will be storing and selling firearms and that they approve), advertise, buy inventory, etc. In the info to which Scutter linked, there was nothing more important than the discussion of proper record-keeping and taxes. Very few understand how to do this correctly and the feds/state are not overly forgiving.

Bottom line is this - if you intend to operate a gun business full-time, have at least $15k in ready capital available to start (not borrowed....$15k in your pocket that is free to use at will), have the business skills to survive (90% do not), and intend to do absolutely NOTHING else for the first 3 years other than run your gun store, you can get a FFL and you'll have a small chance of surviving. Short of all of this, you likely will not get a FFL and you have zero chance of surviving even if you do.

The summary is that few have any legitimate reason for considering acquiring a FFL. It's also a lot of work and risk for very little reward. I'd advise finding something else to do.

 

[westfork]

You can't have a "kitchen FFL" anymore. You have to be running an actual business for profit. The ATF has been very clear on that over the last few years. They don't want you having an FFL just to enhance your own collection.
Also, from that FAQ entry:

i was a kitchen table FFL... for profit of course. where i lived at the time there wasn't any zoning preventing me from having a biz in my home. ATF interviewed me at my dining room table. they didn't mind at all as i had all my ducks in a row.

i will say after a year of having my FFL we decided to relocate and the amount of money i was making doing it helped me to decide not to mess with it after we moved.

not trying to detract from your statement, scutter (and others). but yeah, at least 2 years ago it was still ok do do business at the kitchen table as long as every aspect of your operations are legit.

 

[Scutter01]

By "kitchen table", I mean someone obtaining an FFL for the purpose of enhancing their own collection and maybe do a few transfers for their friends, not literally doing business at their kitchen table. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

[westfork]

By "kitchen table", I mean someone obtaining an FFL for the purpose of enhancing their own collection and maybe do a few transfers for their friends, not literally doing business at their kitchen table. Sorry if I was unclear.

roger that. i just wanted to further clarify. the whole home-based ffl thing is full of easy misunderstandings/misconceptions/urban legends.

also, assault clips are no longer illegal.

 

[ryknoll3]

What Scutter posted regarding a "kitchen FFL" is correct. I held a FFL and sold guns in Indiana for 18 years. When I started, a long time ago, it was fairly easy to operate out of your home (I didn't, and for reasons listed in Scutter's linked info, it's a terrible idea.) Today, it is nearly impossible to get a FFL with the intent of operating out of your home. You'll need to have a business address and be able to demonstrate that you intend to operate a business for profit. Getting a FFL just to avoid transfer fees, and to do transfers, isn't going to happen. The only ones left doing so are the ones who have had a license for years and keep it current. To get one today, you're going to have to organize a business through the state, rent/buy a business location (and your landlord, if there is one, must provide a letter to the ATF stating that they know you will be storing and selling firearms and that they approve), advertise, buy inventory, etc. In the info to which Scutter linked, there was nothing more important than the discussion of proper record-keeping and taxes. Very few understand how to do this correctly and the feds/state are not overly forgiving.

Bottom line is this - if you intend to operate a gun business full-time, have at least $15k in ready capital available to start (not borrowed....$15k in your pocket that is free to use at will), have the business skills to survive (90% do not), and intend to do absolutely NOTHING else for the first 3 years other than run your gun store, you can get a FFL and you'll have a small chance of surviving. Short of all of this, you likely will not get a FFL and you have zero chance of surviving even if you do.

The summary is that few have any legitimate reason for considering acquiring a FFL. It's also a lot of work and risk for very little reward. I'd advise finding something else to do.

Sorry bud, but this post is FULL OF FAIL. People get FFL's to operate out of their home ALL THE TIME. The only requirements are that you be zoned for it and that you intend to run it as a business, and not a friends and family transfer system.. You do not need a store, you don't need a bunch of inventory. There's a site supporter here who I used for transfers who hasn't been in business that long and operates out of his house. You don't need to form a corporation, as you can do it as a DBA, but it is SMART to form a corporation. If you are renting, you do need permission from your landlord. I hang out on ar15.com. They have a FFL dealer's section, and there are people there all the time asking about getting their FFL to operate from their homes and reporting that they were successful in doing so.

There are a lot of considerations other than the actual license when it comes to running a business, but it's not that hard to get the license. As long as you're zoned properly or can get a variance, you are most of the way there.

 

[Destro]

1 word...Gunsmith

 

[JettaKnight]

You can't have a "kitchen FFL" anymore. You have to be running an actual business for profit. The ATF has been very clear on that over the last few years. They don't want you having an FFL just to enhance your own collection.
Also, from that FAQ entry:

Well, this is true for FFL 01. But not for an FFL 03.

There are actually several different Federal Firearms Licenses. 01 is the common dealer license. 03 is for collectors of curio and relic firearms. There are no business requirements (in fact intentional profits are a no-no) and the cost is lower ($10/year).