First long range gun. Need advise on GLASS.

[Hookeye]

I ran 4-12x AO on a couple of groundhog rifles. With no more chucks around switched my current .243 win to 3-9x. Is a yote rig but could double for deer.

Yes a 3-9x is boring. Reg duplex too.....continuing with the lack of cool.

Simple, trim, not overly expensive.....it just kills stuff.

 

[Hookeye]

I have buds that run nothing but Nightforce, on custom rifles. They love em. But they dont hunt, their fun is ringing steel way out yonder, on private ranges.

I might buy an SWFA 12x. But thatd be for load testing, get moved from rifle to rifle. Range use only.

If we had chucks make a comeback, a heavy .22-250 might wear it.

 

[roscott]

If we had chucks make a comeback, a heavy .22-250 might wear it.

We had them before?

 

[Hookeye]

Popular pastime before yotes came around.
70s and 80s.

 

[Hookeye]

Most i ever got in a day was 10. Saw 14.
One farm
Morning

Buddy bought an old farm. Back field weeds. Mowed it and i killed 30.

Pops took 50 out of a small field close to home one summer

 

[Tombs]

Hell I am still trying to figure out 1FP v/s 2FP and what that actually does in real life.

First focal plane means the reticle is zoomed in as the magnification is increased.

This is essential in any scope that has a reticle configured for ranging. If it's first focal plane, any magnification you have set will remain accurate for ranging.

With a second focal plane scope, the reticle is unaffected by the magnification setting. This means, if it has any ranging capabilities, it will only be accurate when using the highest magnification setting.


For proper long range shooting, you need the ability to range targets accurately, making first focal plane essential.

 

[Hohn]

I might buy an SWFA 12x. But thatd be for load testing, get moved from rifle to rifle. Range use only.

If we had chucks make a comeback, a heavy .22-250 might wear it.

I can recommend the 12x SWFA without reservation. The glass is way better than you’d ever expect in a $300 scope. Both the MOA and MIL reticles are excellent (I have a 10x moa as well as 12x mil). I prefer the simpler MIL reticle but the tiny floating dot center of the moa is excellent for target work.

The turrets seem dead on and have a large range.

SWFA are a bit heavy but that’s part of the penalty for physical toughness and reasonable price.

Black Friday sale will usually buy an SWFA bundle at $249 that includes scope, rings, shade, and perhaps even bubble level.

Their rings are great too.

 

[Hohn]

First focal plane means the reticle is zoomed in as the magnification is increased.

This is essential in any scope that has a reticle configured for ranging. If it's first focal plane, any magnification you have set will remain accurate for ranging.

With a second focal plane scope, the reticle is unaffected by the magnification setting. This means, if it has any ranging capabilities, it will only be accurate when using the highest magnification setting.


For proper long range shooting, you need the ability to range targets accurately, making first focal plane essential.

I think you're overstating a bit the value of FFP. I don't think it's quite *essential*. It does make ranging easier because your DOPE is consistent across magnifications.

But 2FP can be made to work just fine for ranging if you've accounted for magnification in your DOPE and your card reflects that. For example, if you have a 2FP scope that has the reticle calibrated at 20X, then your card can be made at 20x and mentally you should be able to halve that at 10x.

More important than FFP vs SFP is that the reticle must be a ranging reticle with clear delineations for MIL or MOA AND IT MUST MATCH YOUR TURRETS. I'll never understand how scopes were ever even produced that had MIL dot reticles and MOA turrets. SMH.

An experienced shooter can make 2FP work for ranging without great difficulty, but it does limit you to specific magnification values. Which is really not that limiting. There are very rarely times where a precise magnification value is required. Usually a scope could just as easily have only 2 or three settings (like an ELCAN SPECTRE). How often do you need exactly 7x and neither 5x nor 10x will work? How often will 12x work but not 10x or 15x? IMO, about never.

Before FFP was all the rage, a shooter just took his hypothetical 6x-24x optic and had a DOPE card that had 6x,12x, and 24x on it.

ALL FFP does is make your DOPE card not need any columns for magnification.

FFP is definitely easier for ranging, but a poor reticle design in FFP will be more limiting than 2FP with a good reticle. And designing a good reticle for FFP is tougher to do because that reticle does shrink and grow with magnification.

A 2FP optic at its calibrated magnification is equal to a fixed power scope, and police/military snipers ranged with those and a basic mil-dot for decades.

 

[Tombs]

But 2FP can be made to work just fine for ranging if you've accounted for magnification in your DOPE and your card reflects that. For example, if you have a 2FP scope that has the reticle calibrated at 20X, then your card can be made at 20x and mentally you should be able to halve that at 10x.

That's assuming the magnification ring is spot on perfect.

It's a lot more work than simply buying a time tested and proven scope/reticle combo in FFP. Keep in mind, he's trying to get his feet wet with long range shooting, the less stuff to have to account for, the better.

2FP is more useful for varmint shooting where you want extremely fine reticles at high magnification. It's more of a niche thing.

I also consider the SWFA scopes an excellent entrance to longer range shooting. I have a 3-15 model on one of my rifles as I really don't shoot long range that often and couldn't justify big money on a scope that isn't going to see a lot of use. It does pretty well, but it's noticeably dimmer at the top end of magnification than stuff in the $2k category.

 

[Small's]

I wouldnt want a scope that starts out at more than 2-4x max if your hunting woods Indiana. I prefer closer to the 2-2.5x. 3-15 or 3-18 would be a good all around do everything scope. High magnification is great for shooting off a bench or a bipod with toe support but for free hand or leaning off a tree not so much.. personally never needed more than 4x for shooting any kind of big critter within300-400 yards. Steel targets can be shot way out there with a low power scope. If its going on possibly different rifles I would consider something in the range of what Alan reccomended as far as power range and a reticle that had marks that can be used with different calibers and not just for a certain bullet.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

 

[Hookeye]

Had one come in fast, then stop. Maybe 40 yards, front facing, had to lean back to slide bullet beside two trees.
Was about to touch it off when he ran to my right.
When he stopped quartering to at 25 the X hairs were on his shoulder and he folded.
Gun fits well, scope has forgiving eye box, not accidently set at high mag (it's a fixed 4x).
Yes, it sucks to count tines farther out.
Yes it has a bit too much mag for up close movers.
But I shoot it both eyes open and it just comes up and stuff dies.
Boring old 80's era 4X.
Bought it for use on a Ruger #1, fully expecting to run it to 250 yards.
Still like more mag for counting points..............but thats when you know the deer isn't a shooter and you're trying to wish it into one.
Like less mag for up close.
2-7X is I think ideal for woods out to 300 yds.
As long as it's always put at 2X when in the woods.
Makes movers close way easier.

 

[Hookeye]

Think my .30-06 will get a Steiner 2-10X

 

[42769vette]

The downside of varibles is as Hookeye mentioned, you have to think ahead of time. Before you go to the woods zoom out, before you go to the field zoom in a little. For me, I have never 1 time had my scope on the wrong zoom. Its just something you keep in the back of your mind, and by doing it, you have the best zoom for the situation your in. Its pretty hard to beat a 2.5-10 for an indiana hunting rifle.

 

[Hookeye]

Ive hung out at gunshops and gunshows my whole life.

I cringe when i see the average deer hunters rig.
Big cheap scopes usually in see through rings.

They were friggin abortions way back and are even worse now that we have the information age.

" Gather light". Yeah whatever. Those that believe that nonsense think more Xs will gather the images of deer.

Way too many mount the gun, jockey to see through the scope and then hunt for the target.

And these guys are the experts.

I just note who they are and laugh my ass off when i see them w brows stitched. Or hear of missed deer

 

[bobjones223]

Ive hung out at gunshops and gunshows my whole life.

I cringe when i see the average deer hunters rig.
Big cheap scopes usually in see through rings.

They were friggin abortions way back and are even worse now that we have the information age.

" Gather light". Yeah whatever. Those that believe that nonsense think more Xs will gather the images of deer.

Way too many mount the gun, jockey to see through the scope and then hunt for the target.

And these guys are the experts.

I just note who they are and laugh my ass off when i see them w brows stitched. Or hear of missed deer

I get what you are saying and please don't think I don't feel the same way.

My 1894P and 10/22 are currently wearing Leupold 2-7X33 and they are perfect on what they are on and what they are for.

From everything I have seen here and been reading I am going to max out my X to 18. This should get my low end in the 3 to 5 range depending on the scope and I am going with the FFP.

I was sitting in the tree stand this weekend with the 7.62X39 bolt gun had it set on 4 and really didn't want anything more than that for the area I hunt.

The 18 should be good at 1,000 if I decide to try and make the leap.

FFP makes more sense to me if I decide to take this elk hunting to help range distance. I am good guessing out to 200 yards but after that just because I have never had to.

From everything I have read and researched the math on SFP can be a bit daunting for the new guy.

Now it is just decision time between companies, model, and reticle.

 

[Hookeye]

Learning new stuff can be fun. Might even have benefits. As long as folks get it figured out before opening day LOL.

I used to blast chucks and was good to 400 on yardage. But i dont do that anymore and am rusty as hell. Id get a laser rangefinder if going out west.

Been a Leupold set and forget guy for decades. The 4-12xAO was a vx2. Have to go 4.5-14x to get AO in vx3

They dropped the 3.5-10x 40mm AO a long time ago. Maybe while vari x III.

Am not up on the stuff beyond vx3. Buddy got somr VH6?......pricey
Reminded me of a Steiner I looked through, color and clarity were striking.

 

[Hookeye]

To muddy the waters further.....
Think theres some long range scope discussion on rokslide. Know it is a hot topic on 24 hr campfire optics forum.

 

[nascarfantoo]

I really like my Zeiss for hunting, but I do limit myself to <400 yards because I don't have easy access to longer ranges to practice.

 

[roscott]

X2 on getting a rangefinder to determine distance. If you’re shooting far enough to really need rangefinding equipment, you’re better off using a laser to get the exact range. Very few people still use a reticle to range, as it’s not as accurate. Unless you have a known measurement on your object, a reticle-determined range will always be inexact.

Additionally, just one last plug for SFP. If you need the fancy reticle on your scope, you’ll be far enough that you’ll want it dialed all the way up, and your reticle will be accurate.

That way your reticle stays the same size, and is never too big or too small.

 

[Bfish]

I'd go with the vortex razor HD 3-18 they are FFP like you are wanting too. It meets what you are talking about in your last post and they really are wonderful scopes. They have options for reticles too. I personally would go with a mil reticle and turrets but that's something else you need to consider. The only downside I can find with them is weight but it is what it is. I'm a big fan, it was what I first thought of reading your initial post but seeing your most recent I'd seriously give it a look. If you ever change rifles that scope could be at home on just about anything too!

AA optics is in the thread and he can guide you, my guess is he probably has a lot of reticles you could see before you buy too if you find his somewhere like a show. I've bought from him before and he'll help you get what you need. He is a Vortex dealer.