First Negative OC Experience - Southlake Mall

[KLB]

The odd thing is we had an OC Meet and Eat at the Tilted Kilt in January on that same property. That Chik-fil-a was the other restaurant we discussed having it at.

I am curious as to what Chik-fil-a management says there about this policy.

 

[Merrixs]

Yes. You would be wrong.
Note that there is nowhere in IC 35-43-2 a qualifier that the agent in question must be explicitly empowered to make decisions regarding the business's no-firearms policy, just that the person be an agent of the owner/manager, keeping in mind that the Criminal Trespassing statute is generic, not firearms specific. There need be neither a specific no-firearms policy, nor, indeed, any explicit policy whatsoever, under which a security guard is empowered by their employer to ask you to leave for it to be criminal trespass for you to refuse such a request. The security guard could even be explicitly denied, by their employer, the authority to ask people to leave. (This is just a thought experiment here. I'm not suggesting that any security guard anywhere might actually be so contractually impaired.) Doesn't change the refusal to obey a request to leave the property by the security guard from a violation of the criminal trespass statute. If a guard is overstepping their contractual bounds with their employer, that is a civil matter for you to take up with their employer.

The only time I would question whether the person telling me, "GTFO and take yer GD gun widcha!" has proper authority to give such an order would be when the person barking such an order is a LEO. If the owner/manager has, indeed, empowered the LEO to act as his agent in such a matter, then it's legal. GTFO. If the LEO has no such authority given them my the owner/manager, then they are just being a JBT and are governed by:

Thank you for clearing that up! Rep inbound.

 

[Merrixs]

The odd thing is we had an OC Meet and Eat at the Tilted Kilt in January on that same property. That Chik-fil-a was the other restaurant we discussed having it at.

I am curious as to what Chik-fil-a management says there about this policy.

I was remembering this as well.

 

[Somemedic]

"On the way home my wife and I talked about it, and reflected on the state of our society in which two men could hold hands or kiss on Southlake Mall property without being harrassed, but a citizen practicing his Constitutional rights is openly discriminated against"

This has nothing to do with 2A. While we have a certain expectation to protect ourselves just as those folks have the right to the pursuit of happiness. Hypocrisy abounds but I don't think we should make the comparison.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Do you think the founding fathers envisioned watching groups of men making out while waiting in line with hundreds of people to purchase a processed chicken burger for $6.00?

Quite possibly Benjamin Franklin.

 

[Boost Lee]

That's one of the imperfections of OC'ing in a society that hasn't fully adhered to the concept of carrying and protecting themselves with a firearm...

I have to say, as someone who also OC's regularly... As long as you carry yourself in a proper manner, are respectful, are kind and polite,
Your POSITIVE experiences will absolutely outweigh your NEGATIVE experiences. And for that reason, is why I choose to OC when I can.
It's definitely unfortunate to have a bad OC experience but as long as you're prepared for confrontation of all sorts, the good still outweighs the bad.

Regarding my thoughts on whether or not you handled it well...
For OC'ing on mall property, given the situation, you handled it as well as you possibly could.
I certainly am not bashful to OC... But when I know I'm on anti-2A territory, I simply flip my shirt over it and never have issues.

*edit* Forgot to say, but while it's on topic... I hope that most citizens that OC are willing to educate the uneducated or concerned.
Aside from obvious reasons of OC'ing (more comfortable, faster draw, etc) - Carrying in public eye creates a massive impression on the gun community... Educate when you can!

Thanks for sharing, though.

Jeff

 

[Whosyer]

So Gander Mountain is on their property, and guns are ok there? But Chick Fil A is on their property, and no guns allowed ?

 

[Ragenarok007]

My wife and I took at ride last night to eat dinner at the Chik-Fil-A outside of Southlake Mall.

Outside and around the main mall building there are several outbuildings. One is Gander Mountain, one is a ShowPlace (move theater), one is Chik-Fil-A, and there are several others.

There were several hundred people in line at the Chik-Fil-A, an organized event to show support for the restaurant chain. Due to the increased traffic, the Chik-Fil-A parking lot was closed and patrons were parking in the main mall parking lot. Mall security was directing traffic, there were a lot of pedestrians walking from their cars to stand in the line, which looped around 3 sides of the Chik-Fil-A restaurant a couple of times.

During the first 30-45 minutes several security guards walked passed me in the crowd, a couple of them looked at me (I assume my piece too) but went on about their business. After we had been in line nearly an hour one of the security guards approached me and asked if I was a police officer. I said no. At this point he had only noticed my magazine carrier on my left side. He asked if I was also wearing a gun in addition to the magazines. I said, yes I am carrying a gun. He said I would have to put it back in my vehicle. I asked why, I have an Indiana License to Carry. He told me that Chik-Fil-A is on Southlake Mall property, and so their policy prohibiting guns still applies. I asked if covering the gun would be acceptable to him. He said no, that they had already had one "incident" today, I did not ask for details. At this point I complied with his request, because I was on their property. I did express to him that in my opinion these kind of policies are responsible for the type of incident that just occured in Aurora, and that I would be writing a letter to Westfield Management expressing my displeasure and would not patronize any of the stores in their mall.

On the way home my wife and I talked about it, and reflected on the state of our society in which two men could hold hands or kiss on Southlake Mall property without being harrassed, but a citizen practicing his Constitutional rights is openly discriminated against.

From what I've read in other threads, this is not a Chik-Fil-A policy issue. My problem is with Southlake Mall and Westfield.

Is there anything I should do besides writing a letter to the management and not shopping at Southlake (which I haven't done in ages anyway)?

Should I have handled the situation any differently?

Dude, its Westfield. Might as well be in Commufornia.

 

[hoosierdoc]

. End of subject

 

[GBuck]

Quite possibly Benjamin Franklin.

Best line in this entire thread! Rep inbound!

 

[repeter1977]

since we are going away from the original point, write to the Mall, express your displeasure and the fact you are going elsewhere with your money. I would say wait for the crowds to die down, go into the place, and find out if they have a policy one way or another, or contact cooperate. That might have just been the highly educated and paid security assuming they have super powers over everywhere again. Not sure where the mall property ends and begins. After all, does Red Robin fall in? or Gander?

 

[actaeon277]

I've OC'd at Gander and Red Robin. Never thought about it being Mall property.
Oops.

 

[actaeon277]

I get tired of hearing OC ers complain. Yeah, it sucks and it shouldn't happen. But you know it will. Hell, I would bet half the guys that do it HOPE it will happen. Have a way to respond, know your rights, and get used it. If you don't want the sheep to freak don't let them see it. If you don't care if they see it, you shouldn't be surprised how they respond.

You know CC isn't perfect. Then they will say the same things about you.

 

[Grizhicks]

I get tired of hearing OC ers complain. Yeah, it sucks and it shouldn't happen. But you know it will. Hell, I would bet half the guys that do it HOPE it will happen. Have a way to respond, know your rights, and get used it. If you don't want the sheep to freak don't let them see it. If you don't care if they see it, you shouldn't be surprised how they respond.

Agree 100%.....

 

[seadoodr.]

There is a distinction here which most in America these days fail to realize. You can disagree with something and that is fine. You're welcome to your opinion, as is everyone else. The problem comes when you try to force that belief/opinion onto others whether it is by government legislation, property rights, etc. It is wrong if you force it onto others. Keep it to yourself and let others live how it suits them (so long as it doesn't infringe on YOUR rights) and call it a day. In the end, that is what this country was SUPPOSED to be about.

 

[KLB]

I've OC'd at Gander and Red Robin. Never thought about it being Mall property.
Oops.

Nothing to oops about. No one asked you to leave, so you were good to go.

 

[12many]

I get tired of hearing OC ers complain. Yeah, it sucks and it shouldn't happen. But you know it will. Hell, I would bet half the guys that do it HOPE it will happen. Have a way to respond, know your rights, and get used it. If you don't want the sheep to freak don't let them see it. If you don't care if they see it, you shouldn't be surprised how they respond.

+1

 

[Mark 1911]

I've OC'd at Gander and Red Robin. Never thought about it being Mall property.
Oops.

Interesting point. I've never been to the Red Robin at Southlake, but I have OC'd at Gander Mountain on at least 3 occasions now, and never heard a single comment from anyone.

I've read in other posts where folks have even OC'd inside the mall without any comment.

One significant factor when I was confronted was the that there was an event in progress with a lot of people present, a lot of traffic, and a lot of security. So it's possible that there may have been some more agressive enforcement of the Westfield anti-2A policies going on that particular evening because of the special event in progress. All I know is that I am DONE with Southlake Mall, with the exception of Gander, and depending on what I hear back from Chik-Fil-A, they may be OK too. Gander doesn't have a problem with carry in their store, so I'm OK with them.

 

[valpo hawkeye]

Both the kissing guys/girls and the carrying of personal protection sidearms are part and parcel of American liberty. It's the height of hypocrisy to support the one and abhor the other or abhor the one and support the other.

+1

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I find it hilarious that the anti OC crowd alwys has to show up and B and moan about people who OC. Go to the other threads that deal with the OC/CC debate and spout your drivel there.

Funny that you have to put your anti OC opinions into every thread that you imagine to have relevence. Leave us alone already.