first time ocing

[Que]

here is the thing, i install carpet for a living and there has been sevral times that customer doesnt allow me to install there carpet becaus they want proof of citezinship.i tell them as far as i know many if not all americans dont carry such proof. i show the indiana state id and still dont approve. so now in the back of my mind i have a thorn about the issue. may be im just over reacting to the ignorance of some people. ill give it another try and see how it goes.i really want to thank everyone for there support and understanding. ill will let you guys know how it went

Bigotry is a two-sided issue. Unfortunately, it's easy for some to discount your inquiry because they have never been subjected to similar experiences, based solely on racial profiling. However, just because 80 people will disrespect you, it is your responsibility to ensure you don't "profile" the 20 who would treat you with respect and honor because you are a human being.

What I'm saying is, there may be some officers who will stop, detain, and question you solely because you are a brown skinned person, legally OCing your gun. On the other hand, there may be a great majority of officers -- as indicated in many threads on INGO -- who will only be concerned if they spot other issues, based on their training that makes them suspicion. That suspicion could have nothing to do with race; it could simply be that you are acting very nervous, not knowing where to place your hands, and looking around in a way that is erratic and not normal (shifting eyes). That would give me pause no matter what you looked like.

 

[Deadly Z Driver]

Make sure your phone takes good videos and have it ready...

 

[halfmileharry]

I think the world has changed enough that you're more likely to be profiled for OC than ethnicity.
Then again, every situation is different and anything can happen at anytime.
I'm about as caucasian as it gets and I get plenty of looks from all facets of life. I've even been asked by LEO about my sidearm and LTCH.
Though it's my constitutional right I'm convinced that the world around me isn't used to the fact that I'm legal to OC.
There are some that don't like it but they'll have to get used to it and get over it.
As responsible gun owners we need to present a responsible appearance and take it easy on the "uninformed" until it's just an everyday occurance that goes unnoticed.

 

[7.62-5.56Plinker]

it would be smart to ask the ppl who are different ethnicities, considering white ppl have no idea what racial profiling is. they may "know" what it means, but theyve got no idea how it feels. im white, but have an extreme amount of tattoos. ive got a good job and i am a well dressed clean cut and wear long sleeves most of the time. i have been harrassed by police when they see me and see that im OCing and they cant do anything because im legal to do so. i just let them be pissed off when they realize it, smile and walk away. i live in a small rural town so the LEOs around here are not the smartest people in the world.

 

[sgreen3]

Unfortunately True, very well put Que

I recived a Neg rep for my post agreeing with Que, an just wanted to point that out. I was agreeing with the fact that, unfortunetly these types of things still happen in our world. I thought Que worded it well enough in a way that it expresed that you just cant make some people happy no matter what you do and thats what I took away from his post. Im sorry if I offended any of the members posting in this thread, It was never ment to be tooken that way

 

[rugertoter]

Profiling has been going on since Ug and Chug crawed out of their caves thousands of years ago, and it will always be going on. Sad to say, but even I am guilty of it too.

 

[Roadie]

People don't stereotype just on race. Trust me, as someone who had very long hair for years, I was followed through stores, pulled over in Carmel for no reason, etc. It really gave me a greater appreciation for the plight of people that are "profiled".

I am glad I have short hair now that I carry, because I often wonder how a LEO would react differently when seeing me OC.

As for the OP, I think how you dress and carry yourself can help make up for any racial "profiling". Attitude is everything.

 

[Benny]

If you are that worried about racial profiling, maybe you are more racist than they are.

If you don't believe racial profiling(or any profiling for that matter) exists, you must live under a rock.

 

[stephen87]

So today was my first time ocing at the greenwood gander mountain. Well it was a little weird. it seemed like everyone was staring as if i was doing something wrong but i ignored it and went about my things. my question was if you guys think that me being from hispanic decent would bring me more problems if a LEO was to spot me persay? I have been cc for over 1 year now and just decided to oc but i hesitate to do it in fear of looking down the barrel of a cop. what might you guys suggest. I feel like many cops might racial profile me and decide to do extreme things because of my apperance rather than treat me like any other person ocing. is it just in my head or might there be some truth behind my fear?

+1 for OCing

Unfortunately, racial profiling still occurs. However, being someone who has OC'd through Greenwood, I don't think you'll get much grief for it. You might think, "but with a name like Stephen, you're probably white," and you'd be correct. However, I also OC while I'm with my girlfriend who is also Hispanic. We've gotten more looks when I CC because of who we are than when I OC while being with her. Most people actually don't even notice the firearm on your side. Unless they're already profiling you based on how you dress, what you look like, or what you're doing, they probably won't notice.

 

[hoosierdoc]

I am glad I have short hair now that I carry, because I often wonder how a LEO would react differently when seeing me OC.

this is where the mullet comes in handy. As you pass by someone they think you're cool and collected, if they turn around to jump you from
Behind, they see the other side of you and are properly warned. If I could pull it off at work, I would use this tactical advantage.

And for the record, long hair is probable cause in Carmel. As a HS student the rumor was grateful dead stickers on your car were enough to get you stopped and searched. Probably not true, but we did have bigger drug problems than our urban counterparts it seemed.

 

[Kutnupe14]

this is where the mullet comes in handy. As you pass by someone they think you're cool and collected, if they turn around to jump you from
Behind, they see the other side of you and are properly warned. If I could pull it off at work, I would use this tactical advantage.

And for the record, long hair is probable cause in Carmel. As a HS student the rumor was grateful dead stickers on your car were enough to get you stopped and searched. Probably not true, but we did have bigger drug problems than our urban counterparts it seemed.

That record is broken and playing the wrong song. People with long hair are NOT profiled in Carmel. Grateful Dead stickers (though indicators) are enough to get you stopped and and searched, sans a legitimate stopping reason and consent... again in Carmel (noted that you said probably not true).

To the OP about being racial profiled, it certainly does happen. No one will deny that, but if you are concerned about being profiled because you OC, I am apprehensive to say that will happen. An officer that understands and appreciates OC, will leave you alone. The guy that is against it, will approach you regardless of race. It's the guys that approach you when you're not OC'ing or doing anything suspicious that you have to worry about.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

this is where the mullet comes in handy...I would use it as a tactical advantage.

Now THAT is some funny *****.

 

[hoosierdoc]

That record is broken and playing the wrong song. People with long hair are NOT profiled in Carmel.

I know, can't do purple easily on the iphone. Sorry. Only problem I had with Carmel PD was taking our fireworks under the old law. Fine ladies and gentlemen. I posted on that on a different thread.

 

[Roadie]

That record is broken and playing the wrong song. People with long hair are NOT profiled in Carmel. Grateful Dead stickers (though indicators) are enough to get you stopped and and searched, sans a legitimate stopping reason and consent... again in Carmel (noted that you said probably not true).

To the OP about being racial profiled, it certainly does happen. No one will deny that, but if you are concerned about being profiled because you OC, I am apprehensive to say that will happen. An officer that understands and appreciates OC, will leave you alone. The guy that is against it, will approach you regardless of race. It's the guys that approach you when you're not OC'ing or doing anything suspicious that you have to worry about.

So, basically you are calling me a liar? lol


Granted, this was over 10 years ago, but I WAS profiled and pulled over on a regular basis. Excuses like "I thought your license plate light was out", "you were going a little fast", etc. Never a ticket, just pulled over, interrogated, fishing expedition, and let go. Long haired musician friends of mine, some who also have corporate jobs, have told me they still experience this on occasion in Carmel.

As for racial profiling, I know for a fact one of the reasons that the Carmel target moved out years ago was because of their ethnic employees being targeted on a regular basis. I had a part time job there for Xmas not long before they moved, and was in the Office and overheard one of the Managers going off on the Carmel police Chief about it.

Maybe it is BETTER than it was years ago, but anecdotal evidence would suggest it does still happen.

EDIT: Hold on, a Deadhead bumper sticker is enough to get someone SEARCHED?? So, an NRA sticker is enough to search for weapons?? Wow.

 

[Twiggsx1]

I use to cc but now very much considering oc and as a black man who use to live in westfield i know what its like but i would feel 100% better open carrying also my mother use to say i was her whitest black kid she had, and I would say mom I`m the only kid you have :-)

 

[Kutnupe14]

So, basically you are calling me a liar? lol


Granted, this was over 10 years ago, but I WAS profiled and pulled over on a regular basis. Excuses like "I thought your license plate light was out", "you were going a little fast", etc. Never a ticket, just pulled over, interrogated, fishing expedition, and let go. Long haired musician friends of mine, some who also have corporate jobs, have told me they still experience this on occasion in Carmel.

As for racial profiling, I know for a fact one of the reasons that the Carmel target moved out years ago was because of their ethnic employees being targeted on a regular basis. I had a part time job there for Xmas not long before they moved, and was in the Office and overheard one of the Managers going off on the Carmel police Chief about it.

Maybe it is BETTER than it was years ago, but anecdotal evidence would suggest it does still happen.

EDIT: Hold on, a Deadhead bumper sticker is enough to get someone SEARCHED?? So, an NRA sticker is enough to search for weapons?? Wow.

10 years ago doesn't cut the mustard as beng "current." I'm not calling you a liar. I think your perceptions have validity, to you. But your perception hardly are verfiable fact.

You're no different that the minority that believes that he was pulled over because of his "minority-ness" but lacks the facts to llustrate that belief.

Now if the officer stated explicitly, "hey hippie, I pulled your Beatle loving butt over because I thought your license plate was out... and you need a haircut," you'd have a point. But you don't indicate that at all. All you state is what you believed, devoid of facts. There could be any number of reason that you were noticed besides your flowing locks.

If CPD targeted people with long hair, we'd be constantly pulling over HS students, construction workers, and yuppies; many of which share your haircut. Police fish, ok no argument there. But to imply that there is an ingrained culture of routinely profiling indivuals, and making illegal stops based on that assumption, throughout the PD is simply false.

As for the Target story, it's just that, a story. You're saying that one of the factors that a smaller Target located in a local thoroughfare (Merchant's Square) was moved to a place that was higher visibility (US31) and allowed for a larger store, was because the employees were profiled? And you further believe that a store manager spoke to, sorry "went off" on, the Chief, rather than the more probable instance of them speaking respectfully to the Operations Major? Uh, no. Doesn't work that way. You don't pick up a phone, and demand to speak to the Chief. Especially not Fogerty.

 

[Roadie]

10 years ago doesn't cut the mustard as beng "current." I'm not calling you a liar. I think your perceptions have validity, to you. But your perception hardly are verfiable fact.

You're no different that the minority that believes that he was pulled over because of his "minority-ness" but lacks the facts to llustrate that belief.

Now if the officer stated explicitly, "hey hippie, I pulled your Beatle loving butt over because I thought your license plate was out... and you need a haircut," you'd have a point. But you don't indicate that at all. All you state is what you believed, devoid of facts. There could be any number of reason that you were noticed besides your flowing locks.

If CPD targeted people with long hair, we'd be constantly pulling over HS students, construction workers, and yuppies; many of which share your haircut. Police fish, ok no argument there. But to imply that there is an ingrained culture of routinely profiling indivuals, and making illegal stops based on that assumption, throughout the PD is simply false.

As for the Target story, it's just that, a story. You're saying that one of the factors that a smaller Target located in a local thoroughfare (Merchant's Square) was moved to a place that was higher visibility (US31) and allowed for a larger store, was because the employees were profiled? And you further believe that a store manager spoke to, sorry "went off" on, the Chief, rather than the more probable instance of them speaking respectfully to the Operations Major? Uh, no. Doesn't work that way. You don't pick up a phone, and demand to speak to the Chief. Especially not Fogerty.

I don't know who it was by name. Was he Chief back then?

You still are kind of insinuating I am a liar here, lol. I personally heard the STL (Store Team Leader) talking very harshly to someone who she later said was the Chief Of Police, telling him that she was sick and tired of her black and hispanic employees being pulled over on a regular basis.

One of my best friends at the time was the ASTL (Asst. Store Team Leader) and she confirmed to me that they were having problems. Some employees reported being pulled over 2 or 3 times a week.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I don't know who it was by name. Was he Chief back then?

You still are kind of insinuating I am a liar here, lol. I personally heard the STL (Store Team Leader) talking very harshly to someone who she later said was the Chief Of Police, telling him that she was sick and tired of her black and hispanic employees being pulled over on a regular basis.

One of my best friends at the time was the ASTL (Asst. Store Team Leader) and she confirmed to me that they were having problems. Some employees reported being pulled over 2 or 3 times a week.

You can't call a person a liar if what they honest believe (verifiable or not) is the truth.
I'll tell you what, when it come to people talking about Carmel, take it with a grain of salt. Carmel has it's rep, and I'll admit at one point it was probably pretty factual, but those days are well past... at least with the vast majority of officers (nothing is 100%).
Want a good story. Well a young whte woman who works here was accused of racism by a guy she arrested. The guy made a big deal about it, got a slick lawyer, and expected us to fold like a house of cards and issue some sort of payout. Well, the lawyer and the guy come to the PD, media in tow, all ready show how CPD is racist.... They got as far as the Lt that met with them. When they told him their intentions, he said... "racist? really? I wonder how her black husband and two biracial kids deal with that."
They all scurried out the door with their tail between their legs, and of course that story never sees light of day.

 

[SMiller]

Kinda funny I have a clean vehicle with no stickers and tinted windows, cops can't see me and as long as I stay under 12+mph over the speed limit I never have to talk to them, make the drive through everyday, some people bring it on themselves, drive a 1990 Lincoln town car with 24's on it and limo tint windows and you will meet several Carmel cops, just sayin'

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kinda funny I have a clean vehicle with no stickers and tinted windows, cops can't see me and as long as I stay under 12+mph over the speed limit I never have to talk to them, make the drive through everyday, some people bring it on themselves, drive a 1990 Lincoln town car with 24's on it and limo tint windows and you will meet several Carmel cops, just sayin'

This closer to the truth... however it's clean (as in not a hooptie) you'll have no ssues either (lots of athletes live in the Golden Ghetto)