Flash Mob Attack on the Canal

[Dirtebiker]

so at what point do you start shooting in this kind of scenario?...Let's say there is a group this size standing 50 feet away and you notice them and stop and then they all start running at you. Obviously the most prudent thing to do is turn and run and get away if you can and try and get to a more defensible position to better assess the situation, but what if you are with your wife and young kid(s) and you can't get away??
Do you draw just for people running in your direction? Obviously if they are yelling,"We're gonna kill you!" and the like you can probably assess what they intend to do. What if they are simply running towards you? When do you draw? When do you shoot? When they are on top of you already and making their intentions known with their fists and feet?
I am talking about a presumably unarmed group. Will you be ok if you bring up situations like this to justify your actions of opening fire before the group makes contact with you? I really am not sure...what do you guys think?

Presumably unarmed? how do you decide that? And does it matter whether an attacker is armed or not?

 

[g00n24]

Presumably unarmed? how do you decide that? And does it matter whether an attacker is armed or not?

I was referring to a situation where they are not showing they are armed. I.e...they are not running at you with knives/guns/clubs...in their hands. Obviously if there are multiple attackers it won't matter if they are unarmed, but at what point can you be sure they are attackers? Do you have to start taking a beating first and put yourself into a situation where it may be impossible to draw your firearm, or it may be used against you? Or can you fire upon them because you believe they are going to attack you and cause serious bodily harm/death in this situation?

 

[mrortega]

I quoted your post just in case you had second thoughts and wanted to do a quick edit.

Yeah, we weren't that stupid (quite). Besides, who wants people to point at you and laugh?

 

[U.S. Patriot]

OC event on the canal anyone?

 

[dlbrown75]

Hmmmm.... sounds like some walks along the Canal by INGO members might be needed.

Funny before I read your post I told my wife we would go to indy and stroll along the canal this weekend.

 

[Barua]

OC event on the canal anyone?

I'm in. Just give me a date and time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I dislike OC, but approve of said event

 

[goinggreyfast]

OC event on the canal anyone?

Yeah, if I'm available, I would probably be up for it too.

 

[dlbrown75]

Noted but it does not get much better than 6+1 for pocket carry.

It has actually kept me up at.night thinking of what to do with 3-4 attackers. 5-7 attackers is going to keep me up tonight now.

Even my main carry when the situation allows is 7+1 in 9mm.

After reading a report that its something like 2.6 rounds of 9mm to truely stop a person who wont just stop after one round.

Placement will have to be everything. And i guess some luck since the targets wont be just standing still waiting on a bullet to be lodged in them.

I just pray that this or any situation requiring a gun never happens to me.

It is my belief that spare mags are nice but not a necessity. I think if 5-7 people attack you, after they see 2 or 3 of their thug buddies bleeding out the rest will run as fast as they can til their pants fall the rest of the way off and they bust their face on the pavement. Ive always wondered why people who might need to run from the police or a drive-by would wear their clothes in such a way that would hinder their escape.(side thought)
Now if the group of thugs are also carrying firearms(illegally im sure) thats when you would definitely want spare mags.

 

[aikidoka]

It aint light as a feather but I'm glad my 2 spares amount to 31 rounds of .45 on person should the need arise.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Things like this story make me start carrying a blade on both sides in case I cannot get to one, extra magazines, etc...

If someone jumps on me, chances are they are ending up trying to stuff their innards back into their belly. I find it almost agonizingly frightening that the chances of being mobbed are increasing. Even if you have a pistol, 6+ guys trying to throttle you is a hard thing at best.

An excellent article by Gabe on this exact thing:
WARRIOR TALK NEWS - The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?

 

[EdC]

I was referring to a situation where they are not showing they are armed. I.e...they are not running at you with knives/guns/clubs...in their hands. Obviously if there are multiple attackers it won't matter if they are unarmed, but at what point can you be sure they are attackers? Do you have to start taking a beating first and put yourself into a situation where it may be impossible to draw your firearm, or it may be used against you? Or can you fire upon them because you believe they are going to attack you and cause serious bodily harm/death in this situation?

A bad situation and one that concerns me. Make the wrong call, and I would either be seriously hurt or dead, or wind up prosecuted.

I would think that before they got close, and I was feeling threatened by the way they were approaching. I would order/command them to stop and not come any closer. I think that anyone of sound mind and good intent would stop dead in their tracks if someone commanded them to stop. I know I would.

If they continued, I'd draw and order them to stop, and get away from me. If they kept coming, I'd have to reasonably assume that they intented to do me serious harm and shoot.

I avoid all that by doing my best to stay out of places where things like that are more likely to happen that others, like anywhere downtown after dark. It's a shame, but that's the way I feel.

 

[88E30M50]

At what point would you shoot in this situation if you were one of the bystanders? Let's say you are over on the other side of the canal and you have a clear shot at two thugs kicking the guy in the head. There is a dirt berm behind them and they are about 25 yards away. Do you take the shot from across the canal?

I'm thinking that the victim is suffering a forceable felony and is in danger of losing his life. My understanding of the law is that you would be totally within legal bounds to take the shot. But, do you have the ability to take the shot and not hit the victim? Tough call.

 

[critter592]

At what point would you shoot in this situation if you were one of the bystanders? Let's say you are over on the other side of the canal and you have a clear shot at two thugs kicking the guy in the head. There is a dirt berm behind them and they are about 25 yards away. Do you take the shot from across the canal?

I'm thinking that the victim is suffering a forceable felony and is in danger of losing his life. My understanding of the law is that you would be totally within legal bounds to take the shot. But, do you have the ability to take the shot and not hit the victim? Tough call.

Way way way tough call.

 

[88E30M50]

A bad situation and one that concerns me. Make the wrong call, and I would either be seriously hurt or dead, or wind up prosecuted.

I would think that before they got close, and I was feeling threatened by the way they were approaching. I would order/command them to stop and not come any closer. I think that anyone of sound mind and good intent would stop dead in their tracks if someone commanded them to stop. I know I would.

If they continued, I'd draw and order them to stop, and get away from me. If they kept coming, I'd have to reasonably assume that they intented to do me serious harm and shoot.

I avoid all that by doing my best to stay out of places where things like that are more likely to happen that others, like anywhere downtown after dark. It's a shame, but that's the way I feel.

That sure is a lose/lose situation. Shoot and you may save your life, but lose your freedom. Don't shoot and you may lose your life. I imagine that if a group of 5 - 7 thugs were charging you with the intent to beat you, and you shot before they touched you, you would be portrayed as the new Zimmerman. It would be characterized as a bunch of youths that challenged each other to a race to the end of the block, not even seeing you, and you shoot one of them because you are blinded by racial hatred and did not see a group of fun loving kids, but instead saw a group of thugs.

The best course of action would be to run flat out at 90 degrees to their line of travel, and if they turn to pursue, you know you are a target. At that point, you have to work to save yourself. If you are with someone slower, it would be tough to figure out what to do, other than protect them at all costs.

 

[hopcam]

Things like this story make me start carrying a blade on both sides in case I cannot get to one, extra magazines, etc...

If someone jumps on me, chances are they are ending up trying to stuff their innards back into their belly. I find it almost agonizingly frightening that the chances of being mobbed are increasing. Even if you have a pistol, 6+ guys trying to throttle you is a hard thing at best.

An excellent article by Gabe on this exact thing:
WARRIOR TALK NEWS - The Flash Mob Attack - How To Defend?

Great article....

 

[mrortega]

Funny before I read your post I told my wife we would go to indy and stroll along the canal this weekend.

You know how a doctor isn't supposed to operate on one of his own family members? Well, that's the way it is supposed to be for an event on the canal. I wouldn't want my wife to be endangered acting as a decoy. Could I borrow your's? I'll bring her back (probably) in like-new condition.

 

[88GT]

This is one of those stories which goes to show that my situational awareness isn't misplaced even in areas that most would deem "safe". I pay special attention to groups of males in my vicinity whom I feel could possibly become violent at a moments notice, i.e. all of them. An even higher alert level is active in my head during night time especially while out with the lady. It's one thing to need to defend myself, but I'll be darned if I drop the ball when someone else is depending on me to keep them safe as well.

Except that no one who is familiar with Indy downtown believes that any of it could ever accurately be called safe. Particularly the Canal, the very design of which affords its own natural cover and detection avoidance from prying eyes. The whole area is a festering **** hole that becomes Gotham City when the sun goes down. I feel vulnerable when I walk the 2 blocks from the parking garage just south of the jail to the City County building in broad daylight.

Sanitized? Interesting. Does omitting the race of the suspects mean anything particular? I honestly doubt it does.

It is interesting. That the media would feel it was necessary to omit pertinent information necessary for the accurate identification of the suspects and their consequent apprehension.

 

[shortyforty]

this is why i not only carry a handgun but also a bag of skittles so if i do have defend my life the good rev jackson will have something to complain about

 

[SSGSAD]

Yeah, if I'm available, I would probably be up for it too.

THIS, also, I have NOT seen it posted, but WISH TV, ch. 8, here in Indy, carried the story, tonight ... Tue. As for ME, I shoot, when approached by 2 or MORE persons, UNKNOWN to me ..... Ret. DAV ...