Florida reviewing gun laws

[serf]

Saw this coming
Governor to announce gun law task force in wake of Trayvon Martin death - CNN.com

 

[indytechnerd]

I see this as premature. If the panel decides that 'Stand your gound' is too vague or too broad, it could impact the trial of Mr. Zimmerman. I'd like to see TFT's take on this.

 

[1911 DeadHead]

I see this as premature. If the panel decides that 'Stand your gound' is too vague or too broad, it could impact the trial of Mr. Zimmerman. I'd like to see TFT's take on this.

Absolutely! We all knew it would be coming, but this is getting out of hand. Give the man his trial then evaluate the law. Is that not typically how it works?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The task force will study Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, which allows people to use deadly force anywhere they feel a reasonable threat of death or serious injury, Scott has said.

That is the law of each and every state in the Union.

Just what are they going to recommend? Abolishing self-defense?

 

[WC Deer Hunter]

Knee jerk anyone?

 

[Dorky_D]

(Not directed at this post or anyone here)
I am really pretty sick of all the media hype and people getting involved in this entire case! This type of event happens perhaps daily or at least weekly, but get's no attention whatsoever. I am not sure who is at fault or who did what wrong or right. I think it is absolutely crazy for the media to be promoting and encouraging a trial and punishment before the arrest was even made.
We have so called experts weighing in on this, that have no direct connection to this case. We have a president that even stuck his nose in the case. We have organizations and public figures doing the same. We have an organization that placed a bounty on Zimmerman. We also have a manipulated recording published by the media. Of any way to handle this situation, I can't think of a more wrong way to do it. This has to be a text book case of how to completely trample the process and maliciously stopm on the rights of a person that should be innocent until proven guilty! If Zimmerman is guilty, let him be charged and punished apporpriately. If he is innocent, let that be know too.
Why have we allowed this junk to go on like this?
This has been a public rant provided by Dorky D. Dorky D will now go back to being a dork!

 

[Bill of Rights]

How to prevent this from happening? How about stopping thugs from attacking citizens? However, since this task force will be expected to give an answer that is something gov't is actually capable of doing, I suspect we all know what the recommendation will be. I'm more thinking that this is the governor buying time for the hubbub to die down. The task force will make a recommendation, and the legislature will be free to accept or reject it next legislative session.

This, as I see it, was where things fell apart with the so-called "Patriot Act"; no time was taken, the "crisis didn't go to waste", and before most people knew it, we had a law with the stated purpose of keeping us safe (TSA and DHS, too) but which only had the effect of growing the gov't.

If this works as I outlined above, the legislators will let cooler heads prevail and will improve the law, not damage it in response to a small and uninformed, under informed, or intentionally misinformed subset of the public.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[J_Wales]

Friggin statist pigs never miss the opportunity to use a "crisis" to infringe upon Liberty.

Liberty is being raped. What will be done about it?

 

[spec4]

Could this be a shrewd move on the Governors part to pacify some of his constituents?

 

[mainjet]

I have intentionally stayed away from most coverage of this event simply because I was not there and I have no real facts.

I believe that the racial aspect of this whole thing is WAY overboard.

Having said that - I believe that Mr. Zimmerman may have his hands full on this one. now that he is arrested and there is such a public outcry by people that have no more facts than I. He will now face a jury and have to explain why he shot an unarmed person and yet , from the little I have seen, he does not appear to show much physical marks from the altercation.

So he will have to answer:
1) what crime was he commiting
2) why did you think that your life was in danger to the point of using deadly force
3) did you use other means of force against him before going to deadly force.

I am not saying that these questions are right. I am simply saying that he is now going to sit in front of a jury and have to possibly answer them.

Then, what will the autopsy show on Trayvon. Will he have any other physical marks on him from a fierce life or death battle before he was shot?

I for one have a very hard time believing that Zimmerman just pulled the trigger for no reason. But again, I was not there and this is just going to look very bad.

I pulled this from the Florida legislature site. I did not study it all because, of course, I will not be his lawyer or juror. But there are some things here that could put him in a bad spot.


776.013 Home protection; use of deadlyforce; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.


On this point he will have to answer how he met force with force. He will then have to answer that in using deadly force why he felt that he was in danger of great bodily harm or preventing his death when he may not have any real physical marks to back that claim up. (I don't know if he does or not. That is for his lawyer to show the marks).

This is Indiana code defining serious bodily harm. I know IC carries no weight in Fl. but I could not find the Fl definition so I "assume" it is about the same.


IC35-41-1-25
"Serious bodily injury"
Sec. 25. "Serious bodily injury" means bodily injury that createsa substantial risk of death or that causes:
(1) serious permanent disfigurement;
(2) unconsciousness;
(3) extreme pain;
(4) permanent or protracted loss or impairment of the function of a bodily member or organ; or
(5)loss of a fetus



Now back to Florida
776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described inthe preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after thecommission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself,unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes thathe or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he orshe has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than theuse of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to theassailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact withthe assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires towithdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumesthe use of force.


I don't know what is going to happen on this case but it is not going to be an open and shut case IMHO.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So he will have to answer:
1) what crime was he commiting
2) why did you think that your life was in danger to the point of using deadly force
3) did you use other means of force against him before going to deadly force.

1) Martin was committing the forcible felony of Battery Causing Serious Bodily Injury by beating Jorge's cabeza into the sea-mint.

2) Because Jorge was having his cabeza bounced off the sea-mint that reasonably believe that he was in danger of serious bodily injury or death.

3) What? Where does this come from? No other force or attempt of force is necessary. I am having my head bounced off the deck, light him up.

 

[mainjet]

So is he not going to have to show that he has some proof that he was having his cabeza bounced off the sea-mint?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So is he not going to have to show that he has some proof that he was having his cabeza bounced off the sea-mint?

Most defense evidence comes in from cross-examination of the state's witnesses. I would anticipate evidence of Jorge's cabeza wounds being introduced in cross via the paramedics and the police video. As well, I would anticipate an expert witness or two testifying about what happens when the back of skulls meet sea-mint.

I would not anticipate Jorge testifying at the quasi-prelim hearing that Florida does in self-defense cases. I would anticipate him testifying at trial if the case makes it that far.

 

[mainjet]

Most defense evidence comes in from cross-examination of the state's witnesses. I would anticipate evidence of Jorge's cabeza wounds being introduced in cross via the paramedics and the police video. As well, I would anticipate an expert witness or two testifying about what happens when the back of skulls meet sea-mint.

I would not anticipate Jorge testifying at the quasi-prelim hearing that Florida does in self-defense cases. I would anticipate him testifying at trial if the case makes it that far.

I think that I understand what your saying.

Are you saying that Zimmerman would not testify at the prelim and because of that he could not be cross-examined? If he is not crossed then the evidence may not come in?

What keeps someone that accidently shoots someone from then quickly banging their own head into the pavement to create a wound? Would it not make sense that in a battle between two people on the ground, in which one was getting his head slammed into the pavement that there would be some marks on the assailant?

I as a reasonable person would think that somewhere between when Treyvon jumped on zimmerman and took him to the ground and began knocking his head into the pavement Zimmerman would have landed a blow or a scratch on Trayvon.

Were there any marks reported on Treyvon? I don't know. As I said I have not really followed the case.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What keeps someone that accidently shoots someone from then quickly banging their own head into the pavement to create a wound?

I see you have worked domestic violence cases before.

Would it not make sense that in a battle between two people on the ground, in which one was getting his head slammed into the pavement that there would be some marks on the assailant?

Depends on the battle.

Why would there have to be marks on the assailant?

I as a reasonable person would think that somewhere between when Treyvon jumped on zimmerman and took him to the ground and began knocking his head into the pavement Zimmerman would have landed a blow or a scratch on Trayvon.

Don't know if Jorge got a punch in. Maybe he was too busy protecting his pistol or if he knew anything pulling Martin in.

No requirement that Jorge punch him before he went to guns. If Jorge was getting his head bounced off the deck, Jorge is allowed by the law of all 50 states to light Martin up.

 

[mainjet]

I now interrupt this message for a round of golf. I will be back later

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Is that a lawyer joke?

 

[Shootin'IN]

Saw this coming
Governor to announce gun law task force in wake of Trayvon Martin death - CNN.com

If the people in Florida feel their guns are in danger, they can send them up here to IN we will protect them.

 

[mainjet]

Is that a lawyer joke?

No, the real joke is my golf game

I will have to let this one lie. I have no facts about what happened and honestly haven't really even followed the case very closely.

However, it seems to me that he is going to have some trouble. He may get off but I think that it is going to be a hard road.

I know he called the police first and that is in his favor. The rest of it looks fairly bad for him.

 

[RBM]

With all the hype and BS...I hear a train coming.