Folder Law

[Lycurgus]

Hello all,

I'm looking to buy a side and/or under folder AK variant.
I've looked around for the 'written' Indiana law on this but cannot find any.
I'm a bit concerned that some of these folders measure under 26" folded and wonder how IN measures them.

if it's under 26 folded would it be considered a 'pistol' ?
if so would a AMD-65 be considered a AOW since it has a front pistol grip?

I've asked around locally and keep getting different answers and would like to know the TRUTH and where I can find a written law to read/copy.

thanks for your time!

 

[sporter]

26" is federal law however, if it has a folding stock then it is measured with the stock extended.

As far as Indiana law goes, if it only had a pistol grip then it is a pistol, if it has a stock then it is a long gun.

Legal disclaimer: Read the laws for yourself and make your own conclusions.

 

[Lycurgus]

was that letter sent to an Indiana resident? the State is not visible...

The Law is not clearly written, for me...There seems to be alot of grey area 'reading' the Indiana gun Laws on this topic.

I dont own a copy of "Indiana Firearms Reference Manual" and wondered if there was any mention of this written in there.

 

[sporter]

was that letter sent to an Indiana resident? the State is not visable...

The is Law not clearly written, for me...There seems to be alot of grey erea 'reading' the Indiana gun Laws on this topic.

If the laws are too grey for you then don't install a folder. Indiana gun law is somewhat vague compared to other states with stricter regulations. Your not going to find an IC that says "it's legal to install a folding stock on an AK" because there isn't one.

Oh and make sure to comply with 922r if you decide to install the folder.

I am not sure what kind of answer you are looking for.

The letter is from the tech branch @ BATFE, it applies to all states on how federal law defines the length of a rifle when equipped with a folding or collapsible stock.

State law and Fed law are different, you must abide by Federal law no matter what state you reside however the state you are in can have more stringent regulations/laws and you have to abide by those as well.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

if it's under 26 folded would it be considered a 'pistol' ?

Here's the statute you wanted to see:

IC 35-47-1-6
"Handgun"
Sec. 6. "Handgun" means any firearm:
(1) designed or adapted so as to be aimed and fired from one (1) hand, regardless of barrel length; or
(2) any firearm with:
(A) a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length; or
(B) an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

If folded, no, you still have a non-handgun (note, Indiana Code does not define rifle/carbine). If you remove the goofy folding stock, then we have problems.

There seems to be alot of grey erea 'reading' the Indiana gun Laws on this topic.

What are you "reading" that is gray to you and what is an "erea"?

 

[sporter]

Thanks Kirk for posting that (I could not find that but was looking).

Now we have the advice of a lawyer!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

1. Don't remove the stock.

2. Folding stocks are silly, but they are permissible as long as you are as hot as Milla Jovovich. If you are not as hot as Milla Jovovich, get a proper fixed stock and stop wearing body armor to the mall even if you wear special boots that allow you to walk up walls.

And now . . . Milla Jovovich:

 

[J10]

Just to clarify for myself, the folding stock is legal IF the over all length with stock folded is 26" or greater?

 

[vxtip]

i thought overall all length being the shortest configuration of the gun, as in, stock folded/collapsed must be make the gun at least 26 inches.

 

[Lycurgus]

I'm not switching a stock but was looking to buy a new gun w/ a folding stock.(AKM variant)

I've asked/looked around and have heard both sides. a local LEO told me to measure with the stock folded ,local gun shops say there's no problem if they dont measure 26" when folded,measure it 'extended'.

I was just hoping to find a Indiana code or some FACT/Proof stating that Indiana measures the 26" OAL with the stock extended.
does it become a longgun/rifle just because it has some type of stock and the barrel is over 16"???


sorry for the spelling mistakes..I should proofread better.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I'm not switching a stock but was looking to buy a new gun w/ a folding stock.(AKM variant)

I've asked/looked around and have heard both sides. a local LEO told me to measure with the stock folded ,local gun shops say there's no problem if they dont measure 26" when folded.

I was just hoping to find a Indiana code or some FACT/Proof stating that Indiana measures the 26" OAL with the stock extended.


sorry for the spelling mistakes..I should proofread better.

If it has a barrel of over 16" it's still not defined as a handgun if its designed to be fired with 2 hands, read the statute Kirk posted again

 

[Lycurgus]

" b.an overall length less than 26"... so what if it has a pistol grip,that can be shot one handed, and a folded stock????

a shotgun was not designed to be fired one handed but they say a PGed one is a 'handgun' even though the OAL is 26+.


OK. so does the stock, regardless of type and folded length, make it a rifle?
I know for a fact that Michigan measures with the stock folded..
but Indiana? and I live here.

just looking for answers thanks

 

[sporter]

Just to clarify for myself, the folding stock is legal IF the over all length with stock folded is 26" or greater?

Not according to the BATFE letter posted. You measure with the stock in the extended position.

Read it for yourself.

 

[sporter]

" b.an overall length less than 26"... so what if it has a pistol grip,that can be shot one handed, and a folded stock????

a shotgun was not designed to be fired one handed but they say a PGed one is a 'handgun' even though the OAL is 26+.


OK. so does the stock, regardless of type and folded length, make it a rifle?
I know for a fact that Michigan measures with the stock folded..
but Indiana? and I live here.

just looking for answers thanks

I think you are getting your wires crossed here a bit.

Take time to read and comprehend.

Remember Indiana state law is state law and must be followed, it is a bit different from Fed law but is generally based off of federal law (you must abide by federal law as well).

If you are worried about a shotgun with a pistol grip being deemed a pistol under Indiana state law then get a LTCH and don't worry about it.
Obviously you want to make sure that is meets federal guide lines for OAL and barrel length so as to not put in you into the SBS category which is not allowed under Indiana state law.

Now if your asking if a stock on a rifle makes it a rifle:

Yes, it does. However Indiana code does not provide clarification on how to measure with a stock folded (like the feds do) so once again if you have that AKM with a folding stock, having a LTCH would not hurt to have around.

 

[Lead Head]

State laws and 922r regs are important but if you really want a side or under folder that is already mounted on a 16" barrel AK variant, just do it and keep the paperwork. The barrel length is the key here, not the stock or grips but it does require a stock (wire, side, wood, plastic, etc.) to maintain the legal rifle length requirement. A forward grip is more in the 922r category but I don't think "furniture" swapping is counted. Do some research.

In contrast, the Draco AK Pistol is a pistol due to its barrel length but you cannot legally install a stock on it last time I checked. Just a comparison, not a thread jack.

I have a SAR 2 side folder and love it and it's legal. It shoots everything I load into it and has become my favorite fun to shoot rifle. Besides having a real pistol for SHTF, the side/under folder would be a great run-n-gun kind of weapon or easy to move in crowded structures, semi-concealent or survival hunting out to about 150 yards max. It's wicked deadly at 50 yards.

It's not pretty either but it is sexy.

If you have bucks to burn, look into a Polish Tantal. Maybe a few other AKM or the 100 series stuff. Model names can be misleading like the title Krinkov. It's a big world out there and when it comes down to it, it's still an AK. You choose the caliber.

All AK's are crude weapons and that's what I like about them. Check to make sure the front sight and trunnion block (rear sight is mounted on it) is not canted. If they are, they can be adjusted. A few degrees off center is not a big deal since you won't be entering any matches with it any way.

Finding one that is already threaded to fit a muzzle brake/flash hider might be added to the list.

Ammo is cheap too

 

[Lycurgus]

hmm... "legal disclaimer.....LTCH....."



who should I ask/email, in Indiana, to get 100% proof in writing?

 

[sensationals]

I'd just call the ATF and speak to an agent.

hmm... "legal disclaimer.....LTCH....."



who should I ask/email, in Indiana, to get 100% proof in writing?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

who should I ask/email, in Indiana, to get 100% proof in writing?

Proof of what?

That you have a rifle?

 

[Lycurgus]

proof how Indiana measures folding stock 'rifles'

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Indiana does not as there is no definition for a rifle under Indiana law.

Is your question, "How does the Indiana State Police measure handguns?"