Form 4473, Fact or fiction?

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  • Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    204   3   0
    Aug 26, 2011
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    Yes, that is to link the gun to the form. But they dont tell any of that to the feds during the approval process.

    The only time the feds get that info is:

    A: The gun was used in a crime and they are tracing it starting with the manufacturer to determine who purchased it. (Only THAT 4473 is considered)
    B: The gun store goes under and the boxes of forms are shipped off to the feds per federal law. (ALL 4473s are sent to the feds to be stored so they can be searched when a gun needs to be traced)

    The only scary thing is in the latter case, I have heard (NPR?) that they are starting to scan the boxes of 4437s surrendered by defunct shops in the federal warehouse using OCR to make the search go quicker. They want to be able to put in a serial number and immediately get a result instead of having a peon dig through box after box of paper forms. How long until that isolated database gets merged for live searches outside the scope of individual weapons traces? :tinfoil:
    ^ this is my point. I'm not concerned about the local atf agent that follows the law. I'm concerned about the stink in DC who thinks they are above the law. They already "red flag" people who buy a quantity of firearms. What's the secret number of nics checks before one is "red flagged"? They're always watching. The point isn't if your a good person or not, the point is I shouldn't have to be babysat. They know exactly where to come when they finally get the numbers to ban guns and I don't like that.
     

    M67

    Grandmaster
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    23   0   0
    Jan 15, 2011
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    No but the atf has access at any time to that paper and that means they have it as far as I'm concerned. I hate buying guns on record hate it. But sometimes if you want nice things you have to.

    ATF only has access if they beleive if there is a cause to warrant such a look. If you're worried about ATF suddenly taking over FFL's 4473s, I'm sure there are MANY FFL holders who's records would mysteriously vanish in a couple minutes.


    Besides Walmarts.....

    And Dicks....

    And Gander....

    Dunhams.....
     

    bonkers1919

    Sharpshooter
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    Apr 3, 2010
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    Columbus
    The Walmart in Columbus must be "rumor central". I went early this morning to find .22 lr. Three guys were talking to the clerk about the "new information" required on the 4473.

    In my OP, I should have stated that I didn't believe the rumor. I was posting what I overheard then and today.
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    204   3   0
    Aug 26, 2011
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    ATF only has access if they beleive if there is a cause to warrant such a look. If you're worried about ATF suddenly taking over FFL's 4473s, I'm sure there are MANY FFL holders who's records would mysteriously vanish in a couple minutes.


    Besides Walmarts.....

    And Dicks....

    And Gander....

    Dunhams.....
    im sorry but I think you have more of a chance of seeing a unicorn than FFL's risking their freedom to protect customers.
    What do ATF look for during regular surprise audits? They Never touch a 4473?
     

    M67

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    Jan 15, 2011
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    im sorry but I think you have more of a chance of seeing a unicorn than FFL's risking their freedom to protect customers.
    What do ATF look for during regular surprise audits? They Never touch a 4473?

    If 4473s would start getting confiscated in mass, doesn't that signal the beginning to everyone loosing their freedom anyway?

    And they do touch 4473s, just 1 years worth, they make sure that no guns are missing, forms are filled out correctly, acquisition/disposition book is logged in and out correctly, serial numbers match, etc.
     

    Trigger Time

    Air guitar master
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    Aug 26, 2011
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    If 4473s would start getting confiscated in mass, doesn't that signal the beginning to everyone loosing their freedom anyway?

    And they do touch 4473s, just 1 years worth, they make sure that no guns are missing, forms are filled out correctly, acquisition/disposition book is logged in and out correctly, serial numbers match, etc.
    One day im sure we'll find out.
     

    JetGirl

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    5   0   0
    May 7, 2008
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    N/E Corner
    What gets asked on the phone;

    45efc282-231a-4cdb-81d0-268cb127b809_zps9c22e44b.jpg



    What gets stored on the form (but not asked during the NICS call);

    2f20b64d-a531-4fab-a2a3-3f80d3a65306_zps29934b12.jpg
     

    cbhausen

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    Feb 17, 2010
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    Indianapolis, IN
    The Walmart in Columbus must be "rumor central". I went early this morning to find .22 lr. Three guys were talking to the clerk about the "new information" required on the 4473.

    In my OP, I should have stated that I didn't believe the rumor. I was posting what I overheard then and today.

    The real question is: Did you find any .22 LR?
     

    Dixiejack

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Aug 8, 2012
    138
    18
    Madison
    OK. Question. All BATF or NIC is looking at is the number of guns a person sells or buys in "X" number of days? They could care less and do not know what kind of gun is being bought or sold.
    I sold an AR lower on GB and shipped it via USPS (I am a non-license holder) to my buyer's FFL. I had a copy of the buyers FFL. At the same time, this transaction was happening I bought a Remington RB on GB that was made in 1902, so it had to be shipped to my FFL receiver.
    Let's jump back to my buyer completing his transaction with his FFL this past Saturday, of the AR lower I sold him. I went in to my FFL today to complete my transaction of filling out the paper work on the Remington Rolling Block. Three days between transactions. But, A big BUT, the BATF (NIC) said they could not approve my transaction. When my FFL ask why, they quoted the privacy act to him. I have never been turn down before on a firearms check.
    Looking at the forms in the previous post, I think I have committed the cardinal sin and made 2 firearms transactions in 3 days (less than 5 days). The agent my FFL talked to today told him to call my transaction (paperwork) back in about 2-3 days.
     

    jdmack79

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    Aug 20, 2009
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    Lawrence County
    Looking at the forms in the previous post, I think I have committed the cardinal sin and made 2 firearms transactions in 3 days (less than 5 days). The agent my FFL talked to today told him to call my transaction (paperwork) back in about 2-3 days.

    You seem to not understand how the NICS check works. The only thing that the government officially cares about in regards to buying multiple firearms within a certain time frame is handguns. An ATF form 3310.4 must be submitted if an unlicensed individual buys two or more handguns from one dealer within five consecutive business days.

    Your 4473 information won't be "called back in" to NICS. You were either approved, delayed, or denied. If you were approved, you could have left with the gun. If you were denied, you won't be leaving with that gun. You were delayed if the dealer believes that you will end up getting the guns. If the FFL doesn't hear an update from the ATF in regards to your delay within three days, the gun's yours. :twocents:
     
    Last edited:

    MikeDVB

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    Mar 9, 2012
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    Yep. mine started again about 6 months ago. And its really annoying. Because of this the ammo is now behind the counter under the long guns, and you can hardly see whats in the case from 6' away.
    I just walk behind the counter and look. When they say something to me I tell them I can't see it from the other side of the counter. If they get crappy with me I ask them what each one is one by one from the other side of the counter, how many are in the box, and how much it is from left to right, top to bottom. They're not happy with it but how else can I possibly browse the ammo if I can't see it?
     

    jdmack79

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    I just walk behind the counter and look. When they say something to me I tell them I can't see it from the other side of the counter. If they get crappy with me I ask them what each one is one by one from the other side of the counter, how many are in the box, and how much it is from left to right, top to bottom. They're not happy with it but how else can I possibly browse the ammo if I can't see it?

    LOL. I like your approach.
     
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