Fox 59 news "Assault Rifles"

[IndyBeerman]

Why do I get the feeling that this has strayed off kilter a bit and detect the distinct smell of urine being sprayed around.

Everybody put their noses in a corner for 10 minutes for your official timeout of the day.

 

[printcraft]

...............
It's not that there were mistakes in the reporting. It's that the "mistakes" are always in the same direction every time, and that direction is toward loaded language inflaming anti-gun sentiment. ....................

This exactly. /\


Events are sensationalized to get people to watch the latest
news tragedy. The 24 hr. news channels are BAD about this
(I don't care what one) as well they need this kind of BS to fill time
and keep people watching.

 

[GIJEW]

Don's Guns rents full-auto weapons and they of course provide a place to shoot them.

 

[IndyBeldar]

I'm even wondering if the Associated Press Stylebook refers to civilian AR-15s, AK47s, etc. as "assault rifles". I don't have an AP Stylebook anymore, but it used to be my main reference guide while a journalism major in college.

Since ya asked, I looked it up in my 2007 edition.
No individual entry for "assault rifle," and "rifle" refers you to "weapons"

"weapons - Gun is an acceptable term for any firearm. Note the following definitions and forms in dealing with weapons and ammunition:"
(skipping down to)
"assault-style weapon - Any semiautomatic pistol, rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or police use with a large ammunition capacity. Also, firearms that feature two or more accessories such as a detachable magazine, folding or telescopic stock, silencer, pistol grip, bayonet mount or a device to suppress the flash emitted while shooting in the dark.
"automatic - An autoloading action that will fire a succession of cartridges while the trigger is depressed or until the ammunition supply is exhausted."

There is no sub-entry for "semiautomatic" but definitions are given for numerous other terms, including pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun and submachine gun.

Remember these words are AP's not mine, and I'll leave it at this, taking comfort in the fact that y'all only metaphorically shoot the messenger.

 

[Brandan]

Sent, I thought about sending it to all 20 anchors as well. . .

 

[jennybird]

"Thank you for joining us. Be sure to tune in at 11 for our late night edition of Fox 59 Hearsay"

 

[model67a]

sensationalizing

Reporters know that to keep their job they have to keep the population reading or watching their stories. They sensationalize to get this. My son was in Iraq and read some of the stories the reporters were coming up with and what the actual story was nothing like they were reporting, they seem to always make it worse to keep interest. I have about quit reading or watching news. The people are wising up and know that it is getting less and less that we can believe the news media. I guess eventually the newspeople will see that the people are doubting their reporting and doing it the way they are is doing the opposite of what they want. It was the same during the past presidential election. They would give the people what they wanted to hear and not neccessarily the unbiased truth. stay safe

 

[Agent 007]

Every time I see people getting their panties in a bunch because someone called a semiauto AK-47 an assault weapon, I hear the same argument. "An assault rifle is full auto, the semiuto version is not an assault rifle." The distinction that a full auto version is an assault weapon, but a semiauto version is not is laughable. If one is, so is the other. These things weren't designed for target shooting or hunting, although you CAN use them for that. (Kinda like I can go get groceries in a Porsche 911 Turbo) What can a man with a semiauto version not do that a man with a full auto version can do, other than possibly be MORE deadly, due to controlled semiauto fire vs. spray and pray full auto hosing? They are EXACTLY the same, except for the full auto or burst capability. Other than cost, of course.

Assault is a BEHAVIOR, not a piece of equipment. Rifles are either semiauto or burst/full auto capable. They are NEVER assault rifles. That is a sensationalist term applied to a certain piece of hardware. Sure, they were designed for military applications, but the design matters not. It is the use of the tool that matters. I've never seen a rifle assualt anyone by itself. If you continue to make the silly argument that a full auto is an assault rifle, but the exact same thing in semiauto is not, you play right into the hands of the media by labeling a particular class of weapon as an "assault" tool.

And arguing about the ft. lbs. of energy created by these weapons, because they are called "high powered" by the media, is even more silly. When a round can penetrate mild steel, slice through both sides of a vehicle, and penetrate 2 or 3 people with ease, it doesn't exactly matter whether it's a 7.62x39 or a .300 Win Mag. That's pretty devastating power, especially in a 30 round semiauto platform. Besides, "high powered" can just as easily refer to firepower, which is the ability to effectively place a large number of rounds on target. The Browning "Hi-Power" is not called that because of the awesome ballistics of the 9mm Nato cartridge. It's called that because it was one of the first hi-capacity pistols.

Just tell the truth. They are all military design weapons, with the difference being their rate of fire. The AR is the semiauto version of our brave soldiers' M-16s and M-4s that defend our freedom, and they are excellent tools for an American to defend himself and his/her family from lawlessness and, as a last resort, against tyranny. The 2nd Amendment is not about sporting purposes. Arguing that you can use an AR to hunt or target shoot is playing into the notion that these are the only legitmate purposes for an American to own a weapon. Owning a weapon is about defending freedom, whether it be from criminal attack or government tyranny. You wanna get rid of assault weapons? Put them in prison and throw away the key instead of slapping them on the wrist and releasing them to again prey on society. CRIMINALS are the real assault weapons.

The media will always sensationalize to sell papers or advertising airtime. That's how they stay in business. To expect them to lose money just to quiet a small segment of society is not realistic. Besides, arguing semantics about ballistics and select-fire capabilities in the face of dead victims laying in the street make you look like an insensitive *******, and in the long run paints gun owners as "nuts who care more about their precious guns than people." Put the focus where it belongs....on the violent criminal who committed these heinous acts, and the necessity of bringing him to justice. "Assault is a behavior" should always be the response when someone mentions an "assault weapon."

 

[Chefcook]

Every time I see people getting their panties in a bunch because someone called a semiauto AK-47 an assault weapon, I hear the same argument. "An assault rifle is full auto, the semiuto version is not an assault rifle." The distinction that a full auto version is an assault weapon, but a semiauto version is not is laughable. If one is, so is the other. These things weren't designed for target shooting or hunting, although you CAN use them for that. (Kinda like I can go get groceries in a Porsche 911 Turbo) What can a man with a semiauto version not do that a man with a full auto version can do, other than possibly be MORE deadly, due to controlled semiauto fire vs. spray and pray full auto hosing? They are EXACTLY the same, except for the full auto or burst capability. Other than cost, of course.

Assault is a BEHAVIOR, not a piece of equipment. Rifles are either semiauto or burst/full auto capable. They are NEVER assault rifles. That is a sensationalist term applied to a certain piece of hardware. Sure, they were designed for military applications, but the design matters not. It is the use of the tool that matters. I've never seen a rifle assualt anyone by itself. If you continue to make the silly argument that a full auto is an assault rifle, but the exact same thing in semiauto is not, you play right into the hands of the media by labeling a particular class of weapon as an "assault" tool.

And arguing about the ft. lbs. of energy created by these weapons, because they are called "high powered" by the media, is even more silly. When a round can penetrate mild steel, slice through both sides of a vehicle, and penetrate 2 or 3 people with ease, it doesn't exactly matter whether it's a 7.62x39 or a .300 Win Mag. That's pretty devastating power, especially in a 30 round semiauto platform. Besides, "high powered" can just as easily refer to firepower, which is the ability to effectively place a large number of rounds on target. The Browning "Hi-Power" is not called that because of the awesome ballistics of the 9mm Nato cartridge. It's called that because it was one of the first hi-capacity pistols.

Just tell the truth. They are all military design weapons, with the difference being their rate of fire. The AR is the semiauto version of our brave soldiers' M-16s and M-4s that defend our freedom, and they are excellent tools for an American to defend himself and his/her family from lawlessness and, as a last resort, against tyranny. The 2nd Amendment is not about sporting purposes. It is about defending freedom. You wanna get rid of assault weapons? Put them in prison and throw away the key instead of slapping them on the wrist and releasing them to again prey on society. CRIMINALS are the real assault weapons.

The media will always sensationalize to sell papers or advertising airtime. That's how they stay in business. To expect them to lose money just to quiet a small segment of society is not realistic. Besides, arguing semantics about ballistics and select-fire capabilities in the face of dead victims laying in the street make you look like an insensitive *******, and in the long run paints gun owners as "nuts who care more about their precious guns than people." Put the focus where it belongs....on the violent criminal who committed these heinous acts, and the necessity of bringing him to justice.

Yes this is what everyone should do including the media...There is no need for a sensationalistic view here...

The media will always sensationalize to sell papers or advertising airtime. That's how they stay in business. To expect them to lose money just to quiet a small segment of society is not realistic.

I don't expect them to lose money no. I do expect them to report facts not an interpretation or exaggeration of the facts. If it is necessary to use false statements or lies to stay in business maybe that's a business we would be better off without...

 

[Lucas156]

done
sent a message to the biased media

 

[El Cazador]

Very good Agent! My first rep given out.

 

[paddling_man]

Holy cow... I've been gone from the forum for a few days, wander around posts, then find this...

I'm not even sure where to start with this one.

These are my personal views. This forum is part of my personal life. I won't directly comment about my employment or co-workers on a public forum except if ever given authority to do so by my employer. All views expressed are purely my own and not to be taken as representative of any other entity: public, commercial or private.

First, to NewsShooter. Sorry you got gang-stomped. There is an understandably naive view by many of the roles within a television station, just like any other industry. (I'm still struggling with a post from several weeks ago where someone I like made the statement to "get a Harley and travel the State probating." I really have no clue what he is talking about. )

This man is a photog. He/she carries a video camera, drives talent (reporters) around who do VOs or standups with video images detailing what they've seen/heard. He operates a microwave or satellite ENG van. He may edit some packages together on a linear or non-linear system. For the most part, they're not his stories. He is a link in the chain with an important, though in the grand scheme of things limited, role.

Based on the number of firearms in the US compared to the number of active participants on gun forums, (no, for this thread I'm not chasing down the actual numbers though I may be accused of glossing over the facts) the actual ratio of gunowners to forum participants is relatively small. We are an enthusiast group; a fringe even among gun owners who see firearms and firearm ownership as something more than simply a tool but rather something we find as a "special interest." Details about what is a "sporting rifle," "assault rifle," "civilian semi-automatic rifle," or "battle rifle" are very important to us. When I describe these details to a "non-gun" person, they gloss over quickly. Sort of like when I'm describing the compression rate of MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 or the equivalent dB loss over 1855 with SD-SDI or HD-SDI. (BTW - Digital TV and HD are not the same thing.)

What is important to a enthusiast/hobbyist is minutia to another. Everyone wants to call their home video camera "hi-def" cause that's what the box or salesman told them. Eh, maybe / maybe not. The devil is in the details and one can hen-peck any claim down to a progressively finite level as the previous level fails the muster.

Commonly accepted phrases are often technically wrong. The common person accepts them; the enthusiast bristles. Many of these phrases are defined (assault rifle, battle rifle) by those very enthusiast groups surrounding their own special interest. Hmmm... special interests. Most "politically correct" terms are borne from a vocal group of folks interested in the technical or emotional minutia of the subject matter. Phrases adopted regarding "language, ideas, policies, or behavior seen as seeking to minimize offense to gender, racial, cultural, disabled, aged or other identity groups." What was once an "animal collector" is now an "animal hoarder." As a "knife knut" I see folks slaughter blade and steel terminology constantly.

Is a WASR sold at PopGuns an "assault rifle?" Not to most of us on this forum because the so-called term assault rifle means select fire... to us. Do we see posts riddled with the term assault rifle applied to semi-auto AKs and ARs in this and other forums? Every day... Know the difference between a clip and a magazine? Most of us here, I would expect to know the distinction but I see folks on here, gun enthusiasts, swap the terms incorrectly every few days. How bout someone on the street? Not a chance... A LEO? Many would mistake those terms. (Not you, Fritz. I know that you know better. )

I didn't see this story. I'll watch it tomorrow. Instead I was reeling yesterday from the untimely death of a member of my department who unexpectedly died during a knee replacement surgery. (Godspeed, my friend. Godspeed.)

IF the story was regarding the technical specifics of what does and does not make an assault rifle, I would be terribly disappointed. IF the story was about someone who was murdered and the assailant used ammunition (say, 7.62x39) commonly found in both select-fire AK-47s (ASSAULT RIFLES) and semi-automatic civilian self-loading rifles (semi-auto AKs) then I would flinch at the (politically??) incorrect usage of terminology and then move on.

If someone conversationally makes a mistake, I may or may not attempt to correct them. If I did it every time it happened, then I would appear to be an a$$ and function in society even less well than I currently do as a registered geek/curmudgeon/techno-whiz.

This isn't even about politics but rather technically incorrect usage of a commonly incorrectly used phrase. I don't like it. It can negatively impact legislation and cause knee-jerk bans of items that makes little logical sense. (I can't carry a Victorinox pen knife with a 1.25" blade onto a commercial plane but a 5" philips screwdriver is all hunky dory??) Still, if I want to fix something like this I would proceed in a logical, dispassionate manner - like many of you have suggested. The lynching of a cameraman by a few is shameful, untidy and distasteful.

Was it incorrect from our view on this forum? Yes.

(Assault rifle? No. No select-fire. No bayonet either though that muddies the waters since we don't make that distinction.)

(Assault rifle? Yes. Select-fire.)

Was it "correct" in that most of America and, for that matter, law enforcement would label a semi-auto, magazine fed, AK or AR pattern rifle an assault rifle? If you used the term "assault rifle," would most of America mentally picture an AK or AR, without regard to that little switch that switches to full auto? Yes.

I'm NOT trying to defend improper usage of technical jargon. I'm only trying to point out that improper use of technical jargon is commonplace for those (including News, Law Enforcement, Gov'ment, etc.) who are outside the bailiwick of that technical world.

Besides... we all know Fox News is ALWAYS the most liberal and left-slanting of all news agencies.

And for those that care?

THIS is a pit bull to me. Not an American Staffordshire Terrier or whatever term has been adopted by their enthusiast group because "pit bull" became too inflammatory of a term.

GEEZ, it's past my bedtime.

 

[RogerB]

bailiwick

for using the word bailiwick ....

must get more coffee now.....