Fox News, Joining The Liberal Fake News...

[BugI02]

I didn't need to. Plenty of people here made the arguments.
(I may have at some point. I'm not a Democrat. But I don't generally feel the need to speak up when what I'm going to say matches what everyone is already saying.)




You seem to misunderstand what an independent judiciary means. It doesn't mean that the judges aren't people. It means that they can follow what they believe the law to be without regard for what their decisions will mean at election time or to powerful politicians in the other branches of government.

[Actually, it is you that misunderstands what an independent judiciary means. It does mean that judges should be free from undue influence by the other branches of .gov, but your idea that judges are free to follow what they believe the law to be couldn't be more wrong. Judges ideally interpret disputes within the framework of constraints in the Constitution and congressionally written law, then additionally by existing legal precedent. They should not make decisions based on their own feelings but upon the body of law existing on the books.]

There's no such thing as a person who hasn't been influenced. If there were, we wouldn't need panels of judges.

That perfection is impossible doesn't mean that everything is a complete waste.



It's not a matter of what we want the law to be. It's a matter of what the law is, and the law allows amnesty.

Have you considered why there are so many refugees from Honduras? It's because the U.S. (during the Obama administration, with significant leadership of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton) functionally backed a military overthrow of the elected government.
These people are fleeing an awful situation that our government helped to create. And they are doing it in a way that is within current U.S. law.

tl;dr Independent =/= mean they can do whatever they wish

 

[bwframe]

Immigration and Naturalization Act, section 212(f) says...

f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President.
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.



I guess we'll see if that means what it says.


Also, see Sale v. Haitian Centers Council, Inc. Part of that says that if the "refugees" haven't yet set foot on our soil, they aren't protected.

Hence we stop them on the OTHER side of the border.

 

[CampingJosh]

You used the word “amnesty” Hence my need for clarification. Maybe you meant “asylum” Is there not a difference?

Yes. Sorry for misspeaking. Hectic day with 5 nephews and nieces 6 years old and under.

 

[avboiler11]

A preponderance of of the evidence shows clearly that the 9th circuit is the most overturned court in the country

6th and 11th Circuits are overturned by SCOTUS more than the 9th.

 

[CampingJosh]

[Actually, it is you that misunderstands what an independent judiciary means. It does mean that judges should be free from undue influence by the other branches of .gov, but your idea that judges are free to follow what they believe the law to be couldn't be more wrong. Judges ideally interpret disputes within the framework of constraints in the Constitution and congressionally written law, then additionally by existing legal precedent. They should not make decisions based on their own feelings but upon the body of law existing on the books.]

tl;dr Independent =/= mean they can do whatever they wish

I didn't say their own feelings. I said what they believe the law to be. That's not about what they want. It's about what the Constitution and the rest of the law says.

Don't make up arguments, attribute them to me, and then dispute them.

 

[BugI02]

Additionally, the US does (and always has) set quotas for admission of refugees/asylum seekers. This is likely what many seek to do an end run around

From the wiki

The United States recognizes the right of asylum for individuals as specified by international and federal law. A specified number of legally defined refugees who either apply for asylum from inside the U.S. or apply for refugee status from outside the U.S., are admitted annually. Refugees compose about one-tenth of the total annual immigration to the United States, though some large refugee populations are very prominent. Since World War II, more refugees have found homes in the U.S. than any other nation and more than two million refugees have arrived in the U.S. since 1980. In the years 2005 through 2007, the number of asylum seekers accepted into the U.S. was about 40,000 per year. This compared with about 30,000 per year in the UK and 25,000 in Canada. The U.S. accounted for about 10% of all asylum-seeker acceptances in the OECD countries in 1998-2007.

 

[BugI02]

You seem to misunderstand what an independent judiciary means. It doesn't mean that the judges aren't people. It means that they can follow what they believe the law to be without regard for what their decisions will mean at election time or to powerful politicians in the other branches of government.

This was the part where it would be good to mention the constitution, congressionally enacted law, and precedent if you really aren't advocating for activist judges

All you have done is say they should be free from consequences not be constrained by the law and constitution. Their lifetime appointment (barring impeachment) already frees them from needing to respond to external pressure

 

[Kutnupe14]

6th and 11th Circuits are overturned by SCOTUS more than the 9th.

It was a Trump talking point. For many of his supporters, his words are gospel, and once heard there is no reason to doubt.

 

[Ziggidy]

It was a Trump talking point. For many of his supporters, his words are gospel, and once heard there is no reason to doubt.

If his gospel is anything like what is discussed in the Christianity forum, I think you are dead wrong!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kutnupe14]

If his gospel is anything like what is discussed in the Christianity forum, I think you are dead wrong!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

For the record, I don't believe there's ANY relationship between Christianity and Trump, the man. In fact they are pretty much polar opposites.

 

[CampingJosh]

This was the part where it would be good to mention the constitution, congressionally enacted law, and precedent if you really aren't advocating for activist judges

Sheesh. You are reading in something that isn't even hinted at.

What is the law? Is it not the Constitution, the enacted legislation of Congress, judicial precedent, and at least some of the English common law?

 

[BugI02]

It was a Trump talking point. For many of his supporters, his words are gospel, and once heard there is no reason to doubt.

https://blogs.findlaw.com/sixth_cir...-most-reversed-appeals-court-if-you-care.html

Finally, a circuit's reversal rate shifts dramatically like all statistics (lies, damned lies, and statistics) depending on what one chooses to analyze. Do you look at one term? Ten terms? Do you look at a percentage of reversals per circuit, or reversal as percent of the Court's full docket, or reversal as percent of the cases decided by that circuit altogether? Chose option A and you'll get a much different result than option C.


If there is a valuable reversal stat, it might be the "full reversal rate measure" proposed by Philadelphia lawyers John S. Summers and Michael J. Newman of Hangley Aronchick Segal Pudlin & Schiller. Summers and Newman base their reversal metric on cases where the Supreme Court examines circuit splits.


That analysis can give a more accurate estimate of which circuits are closer to the Supreme Court's thought. Under that method, looking at the past seven terms, the Sixth is only the second most reversed circuit. The first? Yep, it's the Ninth, for what it's worth.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

No mention of 'gospel'

 

[Kutnupe14]

https://blogs.findlaw.com/sixth_cir...-most-reversed-appeals-court-if-you-care.html



"Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

No mention of 'gospel'

Well, I know who picked up the cherries after Washington chopped that tree down. lol

 

[Gotwilk]

This is why I quit watching braodcast news...

 

[BugI02]

Well, I know who picked up the cherries after Washington chopped that tree down. lol

When one is forced to walk back hyperbole ... does it become lowperbole?

 

[Kutnupe14]

When one is forced to walk back hyperbole ... does it become lowperbole?

Is it hyperbole to say that many of Trump's supporters take his word as gospel? If so, I don't see it, unless you have some other definition of hyperbole.

 

[bwframe]

...If so, I don't see it...

You see things differerently than a lot of folks, my friend. Just sayin'...

 

[BugI02]

Is it hyperbole to say that many of Trump's supporters take his word as gospel? If so, I don't see it, unless you have some other definition of hyperbole.

No, it's hyperbole to make such statements as if they were fact. If you wished to avoid hyperbole (which is IF) you would preface such statements unsupported by fact with 'I believe' or 'IMO'

 

[Mongo59]

uuhh, why did you leave the "H" out, Bug?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

When one is forced to walk back hyperbole ... does it become lowperbole?

Technically, I think it would be hypobole.