Full Auto Stupididity at the Indy 1500 Show

[Hkindiana]

At the last Indy 1500 gun show I saw a guy carrying a WWII Japanese Type 96 machine gun through the isles. He saw me eyeing it, and asked if I would like to buy it. I said "is it registered", and he replied that no it was not, but when he found it in his grandfathers attic he took it to the local sheriff to have it checked out. He said "the sheriff told me that since it has a lead plug in the barrel, that it is legal & doesn't need to be registered". He further indicated that the sheriff suggested he should bring it to the 1500 and sell it. I told him that I am not a lawyer, but I was 100% sure that the sheriff gave him inaccurate information, and that it is totally illegal. I suggested that he immediately go outside and lock it up in his trunk & then visit the BATFE booth at the show. He did just that. He told the ATF agents that "his friend" found it his grandfathers attic, and he wanted to buy it from him. He told the ATF agents that the sheriff said it was OK, but he wanted to check with the ATF first. They asked him to stop back later while they researched it. When he checked back with them hours later, they informed him that they had studied all the manuals they had with them and could not find out if it was legal to own an UNREGISTERED machine gun with a lead plug in the barrel!!!!!!!

 

[BogWalker]

That does not in any way meet ATF deactivation guide lines. That receivers gotta be cut.

Good job running from that one.

Owner better get smart and deactivate it, or work with the BATFE to get an exception and send it to a museum like that old woman who found the STG-44.

Or buy a new barrel and bury it in the backyard.

 

[jason867]

Or buy a new barrel and bury it in the backyard.

Or just melt the lead out...

 

[Hkindiana]

That does not in any way meet ATF deactivation guide lines. That receivers gotta be cut.

I agree, but don't you think it odd that neither the sheriff NOR THE ATF had any idea of the illegality of it in its current configuration!!!

 

[maxipum]

you think this guy was trying to bait someone in?

 

[17 squirrel]

It's called a Dewatt.. Some were registered and some not.
Over the decades machine guns have been Dewatted a few different ways.
Some got a lead slug in the barrel.
Some got the chambers welded full. And the barrel was welded to the receiver.
Others got selectors welded in the semi mode. Along with sometimes barrels and receivers being welded together.
Some got pieces of the receiver cut off so FA parts could not be installed.
And on and on and on..

There was many ways done after the wars with bring homes and before the famed GCA of 68.
For instance thousands of M14 rifles were dewatted and turned into Semi Auto only by a few company's in the 60's. They still surface occasionally, the ones that still have there correct paperwork tend to get new paperwork and get reactivated..
As a kid my Grandfather used to take me over to Old Town Alexandria, Va.
Interarms had boo---koo warehouses along the waterfront and a retail store.
Hunters Haven I think ??? Out front always were dozens of artillery pieces that some were Dewatts and some were not.. All were for sale.
Inside the store were stacks and barrels full of rifles and machine guns. Some live and some Dewatts.. There's alot of them out there, in the next 10 years a bunch will be surfacing..
It's prudent if you are going to buy one, a visit to you local atf office or a call to DC's office to Firearms Technology Dept will save you a bunch of hassel if that firearm is not done correctly..

 

[Hkindiana]

Dewat's have intact receivers, and needed to be registered. An unregistered Dewat can no longer be registered, and is therefore NOT LEGAL. Both the sheriff and the ATF agents should have known this. Now if the receiver is properly cut, it is a De-mil, and it IS legal.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Dewat's have intact receivers, and needed to be registered. An unregistered Dewat can no longer be registered, and is therefore NOT LEGAL. Both the sheriff and the ATF agents should have known this. Now if the receiver is properly cut, it is a De-mil, and it IS legal.

This ^^^

That being said, just because the guy says it's not registered doesn't mean it isn't. He needs to contact a lawyer and have that lawyer contact the ATF on his behalf to find out for sure... if it's registered he needs to find the registered owner and go back to them to get it all straightened out (get copies of paperwork, then purchase/transfer it).

 

[1911ly]

It sounds like this story should have began with "One upon a time".

 

[17 squirrel]

It sounds like this story should have began with "One upon a time".

Absolutely not, this happens more that you think.

 

[oldpink]

This reminds me of that other thread by a guy who posted that 'his friend found an unregistered full auto Thompson in his attic.'

 

[223 Gunner]

It amazes me how people will let the thought of making some money influence them to make poor decisions, like walking a machine gun around the Indy 1500.

 

[fullauto 45]

I was at the last 1500 all day everyday. I never saw such a item walking around. Since I watch for these type of arms, I was surprised.

 

[Beowulf]

I think people might be being a little harsh for our hapless Type 96 owner. Expecting a random person to understand the difference between a demiled and dewatted gun, when local law enforcement and even the ATF didn't know off the top of their heads, is a bit much. Sadly, though, the poor guy could end up in jail for 10 years for an innocent mistake... because, you know, we live in the land of the free and all that.

There is a chance that it was a registered dewat, in which case he just needs get a copy and then he can reactivate it.

 

[ScouT6a]

I would have at least asked for a price. You could always use the lead to cast some bullets and scrap the rest.

 

[Leadeye]

That's a lot of gun to be carrying around all day.

 

[Clay]

I know this has been covered before but I can't 100% remember the answer.

Could the guy call the ATF with the serial number and find out if it was registered at some point?

 

[gregkl]

This reminds me of that other thread by a guy who posted that 'his friend found an unregistered full auto Thompson in his attic.'

I would never post that I found a Thompson in my attic.

 

[JettaKnight]

I know this has been covered before but I can't 100% remember the answer.

Could the guy call the ATF with the serial number and find out if it was registered at some point?

Would it have a serial number? Would it be in Arabic numerals or Japanese numerals?

 

[VUPDblue]

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/class-iii-nfa/112104-i-found-machinegun-grandmas-attic.html