Future of machine gun ownership in the US

[xryan.jacksonx]

Obviously no one can predict the future, just curious on everyone's thoughts about the most likely situation 50 years from now.

 

[KJQ6945]

Doubt anything changes legislatively, it's a loser for a politician. What's the first thing a politician thinks about after getting elected? Getting reelected!

A transferable Colt M-16 is about $25k (bottom end), a brand new one, non transferable, .gov only is about $1k, for arguments sake. Who exactly is going to fight to abolish the Hughes amendment? 98% of the population thinks machine guns are illegal, 1% owns some, and is so heavily invested in them that it's hard to rely on them as an ally for repeal. That leaves 1% who wants repeal.

(All numbers are made up)

 

[dusty88]

The longer it goes on, the more will enter the black market. Perhaps not in great numbers, as they don't seem to be terribly useful for criminals. But reality is that when something that is legally expensive is actually much cheaper to manufacture, the amount of illegal items will increase.

 

[Trigger Time]

Yep the people who have them for the most part will lose a **** load of money if we get our constitutional rights to stop being oppressed. So I won't count on them.
I voted for the court option even though I don't really think that's the option that will happen but you didn't include it so I just picked one.

 

[Leadeye]

Just takes a lot of money in the right places in dc.

 

[indykid]

[h=2]What will happen to machine guns in the US by the year 2065?

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I more wonder what the USA will be like in 2065, and if we still have any rights left at all.

 

[Slow Hand]

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I more wonder what the USA will be like in 2065, and if we still have any rights left at all.

Yep, I'm more worried about the future of my kids vs the future value of my MG's!

 

[jwh20]

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I more wonder what the USA will be like in 2065, and if we still have any rights left at all.

I agree with this sentiment. I will remember 2014 as the year that Senate Democrats, including Indiana Senator Joe Donnelly, voted to amend (i.e. gut) the 1st Amendment to further their radical anti-freedom agenda. In case you didn't follow that action, the leftists know that many "right wing radical" groups such as the NRA (just to name one we're familiar with) allow citizens of modest means to band together to stand up to billionaires like Michael Bloomberg, George Soros, and Bill Gates. So the leftist 1A amendment would have limited or silenced the "corporate" voice and given their big-money donors an even greater voice than they now have.

Please keep this in mind when Sen. Donnelly comes up for re-election!

There is NO constitutionally protected right that the leftists would not throw under the bus in a heartbeat if it would further their agenda to make us all subordinate to the United Nations.

 

[dusty88]

As to the original question, do any of the machine gun owners here oppose legalizing the guns? If you were planning on selling them, I understand the need to preserve value. And I understand the frustration of "I bought this when it cost 25x as much!". But I expect that most have them because they really, really wanted them and wouldn't mind having 25 more. Just my guess.

 

[sp3worker]

I get really tired of hearing "all the guys with $$$ invested in transferables don't want newly manufactured MG's because it will kill their investment." That's not the case with 99% of us, we bought them as shooters not investments. We would love nothing more than to be able to buy a new, unavailable on the transferable market MG, at a reasonable price. I don't think that's ever going to happen though. I forsee an eventual similar end that Canada had, no more future transfers.

 

[BogWalker]

I guess I'm a pessimist. Eventually somebody will probably use a transferable MG to kill somebody, the media takes off with it, and there goes that. I think the only reason the antis don't target them now is because they don't even know they're out there. I've never met an anti-gunner who's even heard of the 1934 NFA.

 

[Lee11b]

hey everyone on Class III / remember you need to set up a Class 3 trust with a lawyer BEFORE buying a Class 3 item / When you die, the ATF comes and "reclaims" ALL class 3 items in your home.

 

[M67]

I guess I'm a pessimist. Eventually somebody will probably use a transferable MG to kill somebody, the media takes off with it, and there goes that. I think the only reason the antis don't target them now is because they don't even know they're out there. I've never met an anti-gunner who's even heard of the 1934 NFA.

There has been 2 crimes committed with a transferable machine gun, and 1 involved a LEO shooting an informant and information on the second is sketchy.

People who own MGs are very responsible, and seems like if one is stolen, it's usually found pretty quick.

I'd love to see the MG market open up for civilians. My bank account would hate me, but I wouldn't mind owning one

hey everyone on Class III / remember you need to set up a Class 3 trust with a lawyer BEFORE buying a Class 3 item / When you die, the ATF comes and "reclaims" ALL class 3 items in your home.

You sure on that? Maybe if you have no family or immediate others. I know of a couple families that after the person who owned the items died (no trust) that the items were Form 5'd to their wife or children.

 

[sp3worker]

hey everyone on Class III / remember you need to set up a Class 3 trust with a lawyer BEFORE buying a Class 3 item / When you die, the ATF comes and "reclaims" ALL class 3 items in your home.

Please stop spreading false information. They transfer tax free on a Form 5 to their heir. ATF does not come take possession of any NFA items.

 

[Brian Ski]

hey everyone on Class III / remember you need to set up a Class 3 trust with a lawyer BEFORE buying a Class 3 item / When you die, the ATF comes and "reclaims" ALL class 3 items in your home.

?????

I have gone with the Leo signed Form 4s. Works for me. As long as you have heirs the firearms transfer down same as the rest of your property.

Never had to deal with getting a trust. Not sure how Indiana is, from what I have seen on here the trusts work out well. I have heard some trusts need to file yearly paperwork or the trust can fall in default, if so the property of the trust can be confiscated. Sounds like that is not normal. I wonder if that is a particular trust. That might be in some of the democratic controlled states. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[BogWalker]

Please stop spreading false information. They transfer tax free on a Form 5 to their heir. ATF does not come take possession of any NFA items.

Maybe he thinks that's what will happen in the future?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I selected "Nothing Changes" but that's my cynical self speaking. When we consider the tides that's turned with regard to CC/OC carry over the last decade or two, the avoidance of increased gun control even after horrific mass-murders, maybe I should be more optimistic. Unfortunately, in 50 years I'll likely not be around anymore but at least my kids and grand kids may. Maybe the pathway to getting all that changed lies in getting our kids and grandkids into the hunting, shooting, and collecting.

 

[KJQ6945]

I get really tired of hearing "all the guys with $$$ invested in transferables don't want newly manufactured MG's because it will kill their investment." That's not the case with 99% of us, we bought them as shooters not investments. We would love nothing more than to be able to buy a new, unavailable on the transferable market MG, at a reasonable price. I don't think that's ever going to happen though. I forsee an eventual similar end that Canada had, no more future transfers.

I truly believe, that everyone I know with a transferable, would love to see the the Hughes amendment and the NFA go away. Silently wanting it to go away and actively pursuing it are two completely different things.
A transferable MP5 is about $30K, show me a blue collar guy who can lose $29K overnight and not cry a little. If they ever start seriously talking about repeal, there would be quite a few guns for sale, probably cheap, by current market standards.
I don't know anyone who bought a machine gun with the intent of making money, but everyone of them knows exactly what they are worth.

Money does influence decisions people make.

I agree that we will never go back to the way it was. They take little incremental bites away from our freedoms. The real question is what's their next little bite?

 

[Lee11b]

"Lee's note: This is the first contribution from Charles M. Britt, III, a Bradenton, Florida-based attorney and a former law enforcement officer and firearms trainer. The Benefits of a Gun Trustby Charles M. Britt, III​

An increasing number of gun owners, with help from attorneys, are creating legal trusts to buy silencers, fully-automatic machine guns, or any other items or weapon whose sale is restricted by federal gun law, otherwise known as the National Firearms Act “NFA”— this legal entity subverts the requirement to obtain local law enforcement approval or even undergo criminal background checks. This trust goes around much of the red tape and problems associated with personal ownership of NFA weapons.
These gun trusts allow the owners of the regulated firearms to use and share them legally with family members and to pass them down through the generations. These trust are gaining in number because they offer legal protection from potential future laws which may ban the possession or sale of the firearms.
Specific benefits:
Local Sheriff or Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) Sign Off Not Required – The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF or BATF) mandate that individuals get the approval of the CLEO of the county where you live does not apply to NFA gun trusts. Many local sheriffs refuse to sign off on the purchase for various reasons which makes buying a NFA weapon almost impossible for an individual. A class 3 NFA trust works around that problem.
Fingerprint Cards Not Required – For an individual, the BATF requires two sets of fingerprint cards to go with Form 4 transfers. This requirement doesn’t apply to a NFA gun trust.
Owner Photograph Not Required – An individual is required to provide a photograph with the application, again doesn’t apply to a gun trust.
Continuity of Ownership – as like most trusts, unless the items in the trust are sold by the trustee, the items belongs to the trust as long as the trust exists. Usually, a trust runs 70 years. A gun trust can set out the division of property just like a will, but the assets remain legally in the trust for generations.

Charles M. Britt, III

Continuity, Scope, and Mutuality of Class 3 Weapon Possession – A NFA firearm trust can allow various people to possess and use Class 3 weapons owned by the trust. Multiple trustees can be named who have the authority to possess the trust's assets. Those persons and beneficiaries can be designated at the outset of the trust or added or deleted at a later date. Without a trust, the individual owner, and no one else, can possess or use the Class 3 weapon. There is no requirement to transfer the gun trust assets upon the death or legal incapacity of a trustee or beneficiary. You also avoid the need to file a Form 4 transfer and pay the $200 federal tax.
Confidentiality - The gun trust is not filed with any state or municipal government or other law enforcement entity, except the BATF. If gun trust buys a NFA Class 3 weapon, a copy of the trust itself must be filed with Form 4. But, your trust and your name only show up on the tax rolls of the BATF. Since it is a tax related filing, it is exempt from most subpoenas and public records requests.
No Filing Fees – Since nothing is filed with any government bureaucracy, there are no filing fees to be paid for someone to copy and file it in a government database.
Insurance – As it stands right now, an NFA Class 3 weapons trust is you best protection to buy and later sell or transfer those weapons as assets for generations to come. What laws that may come in the future will probably not affect trust already in existence.
Protection – not from criminals, but from the government. A gun trust can be written to insulate your loved ones in case they accidentally possess an NFA weapon that is not registered to them personally.
Speed of Registration - A properly written NFA gun trust can speed up the registration process significantly and allow you to obtain Class 3 items before new laws take effect.
Background Check Not Required- while most Class 3 dealers do it anyway, there is no requirement of a background check when an NFA gun trust is used.
Bradenton Attorney Charles M. Britt, III can be contacted at (941) 747-4440."


Hey sp3Worker, I'm not trying to post false information. A local dealer and sheriff made me aware of this. A class 3 trust seems like a viable option.

 

[M67]

Hey sp3Worker, I'm not trying to post false information. A local dealer and sheriff made me aware of this. A class 3 trust seems like a viable option.

Doesn't mean they're correct. As long as there is a legal beneficiary it can be transfered

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/Library/Forms/Firearms/f_5320_5_application_for_tax_exempt_transfer_and_registration_of_firearm.pdf