Garand accuracy/rebarrel question

[Cameramonkey]

Was playing with mine last night and I found what appears to be the problem. Wobbly sights. Both front and rear sights are less than solid. The entire front sight has a bit of play due to how loose the gas cylinder is. The rear sight assembly also has a bit of play. Together I can see the POI changing considerably due to both sights shifting slightly.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Was playing with mine last night and I found what appears to be the problem. Wobbly sights. Both front and rear sights are less than solid. The entire front sight has a bit of play due to how loose the gas cylinder is. The rear sight assembly also has a bit of play. Together I can see the POI changing considerably due to both sights shifting slightly.

If you're not in a big hurry, the CMP will probably fix those problems for free... or at least they used to. I had to send my first one back 2 times because the timing was off (whatever that means). It was ejecting the en bloc clip after only 2-4 rounds, along with the remaining unfired ammo. It was a Service Grade and they never did fix it, but they replaced it with a CMP "Special Grade", so I wasn't complaining!

Edit: If you're handy with such things, they might also offer to send you replacement parts if that's the problem.

 

[jinks]

Was playing with mine last night and I found what appears to be the problem. Wobbly sights. Both front and rear sights are less than solid. The entire front sight has a bit of play due to how loose the gas cylinder is. The rear sight assembly also has a bit of play. Together I can see the POI changing considerably due to both sights shifting slightly.

Here are the instructions from CMP to fit the gas cylinder:

Gas Cylinder - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program

I have used a socket or other round tool and a hammer to tighten the splines on the barrel. Lay the socket on the barrel spline and tap it with the hammer. Go slow and check the fit frequently. If you tighten it too much a hammer will be required to install and remove the gas cylinder.

 

[sloughfoot]

Peening the splines on the barrel is easy. See the previous post. Like I said before, a rubber band for the rear sight fixes the wobbly rear.

The CMP won't fix either sight because the looseness is perfectly normal for a service rifle. Part of the match conditioning procedure is to tighten both up but you don't have a match rifle for them to fix.

BTW, my latest SA Service grade showed up last Thursday and the gas cylinder is acceptably loose and the rear sight is acceptably wobbly. But I will still use a rubber band on it. I can't wait to shoot it. The rifle is beautiful in walnut and fresh Parkerizing. 2+ muzzle, 3 throat. 8-45 barrel. 3.3 million range serial number. It will shoot just fine I think. If it does not, a new barrel will be the last thing I do.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Peening the splines on the barrel is easy. See the previous post. Like I said before, a rubber band for the rear sight fixes the wobbly rear.

The CMP won't fix either sight because the looseness is perfectly normal for a service rifle. Part of the match conditioning procedure is to tighten both up but you don't have a match rifle for them to fix.

BTW, my latest SA Service grade showed up last Thursday and the gas cylinder is acceptably loose and the rear sight is acceptably wobbly. But I will still use a rubber band on it. I can't wait to shoot it. The rifle is beautiful in walnut and fresh Parkerizing. 2+ muzzle, 3 throat. 8-45 barrel. 3.3 million range serial number. It will shoot just fine I think. If it does not, a new barrel will be the last thing I do.

My M1 identifies as a match rifle.

 

[sloughfoot]

My M1 identifies as a match rifle.

Mine too. The challenge is, and always has been, to shoot up to the capabilities of the rifle in our hands.

Not that long ago, I bought a service grade rifle from the North Store and the next morning showed up for the National Garand match at Camp Perry planning to shoot that new rifle. It was kind of a magical day for me shooting issued ammo and a loose gas cylinder and a rubber band holding the rear sight. I was clean at slow fire and rapid fire prone. I was clean until it was time to stand up. I dropped 7 points standing and ended up number 7 out of 1500+ shooters. I have the match bulletin around here somewhere but I think it was 2005. I know a little of what I speak. I been doing this a long time......

FWIW, my new rifle that just arrived had a buggered up crown. It also had a carbon ring that had to be scrubbed out about an inch forward of the throat. I cleaned up the crown with a muzzle chamfering tool and scrubbed out the carbon ring with J-B and anticipate good results. We will see when I take it to a 200 yard range and shoot on a SR target. I will be testing it with Hornady AMAX 155's over 46 grains of IMR 4064 in a variety of cases with WLR primers.

Take your rifle to a Garand match and have some fun with it.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Thanks, sloughfoot.

I tore down my rifle about 30 mins ago and started to peen it. Then I remembered I'm the only one still awake in the house. In the interest of not waking SWMBO (my workbench is directly under the master bedroom), I'll try tomorrow after church.

And I'll try the rubber band trick for the rear.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Holy crap that made a huge difference. Barrel peened and now it fits snugly. Takes a few taps with a mallet to remove, but its now snug.

I also used a piece of wood for support and put the rear sight cover in the vise. I applied pressure to "flatten" it a tad so it fit inside the receiver more snugly. Now both sights are plenty tight and [STRIKE]good as[/STRIKE] better than new.

INGO rocks.

 

[sloughfoot]

The trigger group on my new Service grade is extremely worn and after 4 or 5 shots the entire assembly drops out of the rifle. I have other trigger groups around and every other one locks the action up tight and strong. I sent an email to CMP customer service and am hoping they will just swap trigger groups with me. No answer yet. Otherwise, I know my friend, Jerry Johnson has the parts to fix it. A new trigger guard and pin should do it.

I fired 19 rounds through it on Thursday and it easily held the 10 ring on the SR target at 200 yards with my 155 AMAX reloads. At least until the darn trigger group falls out the bottom. That shot was a low 8 or 7.

The front sight wobbles a couple of thousands but since it takes .008 for a 1 MOA deviation, it is acceptable. I might tighten it up in the future just because. But it isn't real critical for accuracy at short range of 200 or even 300 yards. The rear sight is plenty tight enough. It takes 8 clicks up for 100 yards and 11 clicks up for 200 yards.

I'm glad you got your sights squared away with no drama. BTW, I use a GI web sling on this rifle and shot it from prone with a tight sling. I hope to see you at a match....I'll be the guy trying to hold his trigger group in the rifle...Sheesh.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The trigger group on my new Service grade is extremely worn and after 4 or 5 shots the entire assembly drops out of the rifle. I have other trigger groups around and every other one locks the action up tight and strong. I sent an email to CMP customer service and am hoping they will just swap trigger groups with me. No answer yet. Otherwise, I know my friend, Jerry Johnson has the parts to fix it. A new trigger guard and pin should do it.

I fired 19 rounds through it on Thursday and it easily held the 10 ring on the SR target at 200 yards with my 155 AMAX reloads. At least until the darn trigger group falls out the bottom. That shot was a low 8 or 7.

The front sight wobbles a couple of thousands but since it takes .008 for a 1 MOA deviation, it is acceptable. I might tighten it up in the future just because. But it isn't real critical for accuracy at short range of 200 or even 300 yards. The rear sight is plenty tight enough. It takes 8 clicks up for 100 yards and 11 clicks up for 200 yards.

I'm glad you got your sights squared away with no drama. BTW, I use a GI web sling on this rifle and shot it from prone with a tight sling. I hope to see you at a match....I'll be the guy trying to hold his trigger group in the rifle...Sheesh.

Thanks for the update. Mine is the exact opposite. The trigger guard is so damned tight I carry a cheater loop with me in my bag. Its a loop of paracord I can run through the back of the guard and get a good grip with both hands to pull it back and disengage. I just dont have the finger strength to grip it.

I REALLY wish life wasnt so hectic. My newly peened barrel and subsequently tightened front sight has been sitting next to a 100rds of new match grade ammo for nearly a week just waiting to go test it out. And zero it in.

Worst case I'll make Haven stop by Proteq after the Riley IDPA match later this month so I can test the accuracy.

Good luck with the CMP!

 

[Cameramonkey]

Finally got out to the range today. The snugged up front sight made a huge difference. I was holding a 4" group at 100 yards on a rest.

Once I got the thing properly zeroed. I started with a bullseye in the lower right target on a Redfield sight-in target, and the other two were at least touching the outer diamond. Not bad.

Once I got it dialed in I was reliably ringing the steel at 150. MUUUUUUUUCH better.

Thanks for all the advice. Peening made a YUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

 

[sloughfoot]

CMP sent me a label to return my worn out trigger group. They sent me a new trigger group within a couple of weeks. I am very happy with their service.. The rifle now locks up tight and strong.

 

[Streck-Fu]

If you're not in a big hurry, the CMP will probably fix those problems for free... or at least they used to. I had to send my first one back 2 times because the timing was off (whatever that means).

Mine used to do that it was a worn out clip latch spring.....LINK

Included with the Spring Kit that every Garand owner should have on hand...LINK

 

[femurphy77]

What's wrong with cats?

rhino likes cats a lot. Look at all the cool stuff he has.

Never heard of Nicole Sherzinger but she looks high maintenance!

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Mine used to do that it was a worn out clip latch spring.....LINK

Included with the Spring Kit that every Garand owner should have on hand...LINK

That's the first thing they sent me, but no luck. I was really surprised that they couldn't get it to function after two trips. Since they replaced my Service Grade with a CMP Special Grade, I was happy, although the Special Grade was Korean War vintage while my original was WWII.

 

[Streck-Fu]

If they looked at it and chose to replace the rifle, it must have been a hard failure indeed. Sounds like a solid upgrade.

I wonder if I could find something wrong with mine.....

 

[DoggyDaddy]

If they looked at it and chose to replace the rifle, it must have been a hard failure indeed. Sounds like a solid upgrade.

I wonder if I could find something wrong with mine.....

Ha! There ya go!

Honestly, after talking to their armorer, I think they were testing it with special 4 round enbloc clips. It would sometimes make it through 4 rounds out of my 8 rounders before ejecting, so they might have thought they had it fixed the first time. When I told him to use 8 rounders, that's when they did the exchange.

 

[femurphy77]

Peening the splines on the barrel is easy. See the previous post. Like I said before, a rubber band for the rear sight fixes the wobbly rear.

The CMP won't fix either sight because the looseness is perfectly normal for a service rifle. Part of the match conditioning procedure is to tighten both up but you don't have a match rifle for them to fix.

BTW, my latest SA Service grade showed up last Thursday and the gas cylinder is acceptably loose and the rear sight is acceptably wobbly. But I will still use a rubber band on it. I can't wait to shoot it. The rifle is beautiful in walnut and fresh Parkerizing. 2+ muzzle, 3 throat. 8-45 barrel. 3.3 million range serial number. It will shoot just fine I think. If it does not, a new barrel will be the last thing I do.

Finally got out to the range today. The snugged up front sight made a huge difference. I was holding a 4" group at 100 yards on a rest.

Once I got the thing properly zeroed. I started with a bullseye in the lower right target on a Redfield sight-in target, and the other two were at least touching the outer diamond. Not bad.

Once I got it dialed in I was reliably ringing the steel at 150. MUUUUUUUUCH better.

Thanks for all the advice. Peening made a YUUUUUUUUUGE difference.

I'm gonna have to try peening my new IHC also, after reading thru this thread I noticed how loose my front site was also. Can't wait to take it for a few laps around the track!!