GAS MASKS

[cce1302]

CS you get used to it after awhile. It is really good at clearing your sinuses.

Yeah, the nice thing is that it's completely harmless.

 

[swatdoc]

As it pertains to chemical/biological protection, I can offer some insights from the civilian medical world. I believe even the military has moved away from MOPP suits which had an activated charcoal lining. Those were only good for 30 days once removed from the package. For civilian purposes the Tyvek F suits are ideal. They consist of a normal Tyvek material with an impenetrable coating and sell for less than $50. In addition to the suit, you'd need nitrile gloves and duct tape. A hood on the suit seals down around the protective mask. I would definitely recommend a new Tyvek F suit over the older MOPP suit which is heavier/bulkier and of questionable condition until you open the package and find out.

The whole idea of protecting yourself from chem/bio threats should not be a mystery or incite fear. It's a lot of common sense things. Most of which we'd do just from common sense, such as creating distance from the source, or sheltering in place, rinsing off with water, etc. The simple things are very good defense. If you want to incrementally decrease your risk, then you have to incrementally increase your expenditure for protective measures. But each little increase in protection comes with a higher and higher expenditure of time or money. The fact that as civilians, we don't have to enter the hot zone means we need less than completely impenetrable coverage for most threats.

 

[IndyBeldar]

Yeah, the nice thing is that it's completely harmless.

Every soldier (and I presume every Marine) has to experience CS (nicknamed "Cry Sooner"); reactions vary, but all get over it.

NBC gear is a pain to use. Going into various stages of MOPP was a regular part of Army field exercises. Glad I don't have to hassle with that anymore.

 

[CarmelHP]

Yeah, the nice thing is that it's completely harmless.

Not so sure:

Although described as a non-lethal weapon for crowd control, many studies have raised doubts about this classification. As well as creating severe pulmonary damage, CS can also significantly damage the heart and liver.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs_gas#cite_note-AMA-8
On September 28, 2000, Prof. Dr. Uwe Heinrich released a study commissioned by John C. Danforth, of 'The Office of Special Counsel', to investigate the use of CS by the FBI at the Branch Davidians' Mount Carmel compound. He concluded that the lethality of CS used would have been determined mainly by two factors: whether gas masks were used and whether the occupants were trapped in a room. He suggests that if no gas masks were used and the occupants were trapped, then, "...there is a distinct possibility that this kind of CS exposure can significantly contribute to or even cause lethal effects."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs_gas#cite_note-UweHeinrich-0
Many reports have associated CS exposure with miscarriages.This is consistent with its reported clastogenic effect (abnormal chromosome change) on mammalian cells.
When CS is metabolized, cyanide can be detected in human tissue.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs_gas#cite_note-AMA-8According to the United States Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine, CS emits "very toxic fumes" when heated to decomposition, and at specified concentrations CS gas is an immediate danger to life and health. They also state that those exposed to CS gas should seek medical attention immediately.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs_gas#cite_note-USArmy-1

Source: Howard Hu, MD, MPH; Jonathan Fine, MD; Paul Epstein, MD, MPH; Karl Kelsey, MD, MOH; Preston Reynolds, MD, PhD; Bailus Walker, PhD, MPH. "Tear Gas: Harassing Agent or Toxic Chemical Weapon?" Journal of the American Medical Association. August 4, 1989.

 

[jeremy]

I believe even the military has moved away from MOPP suits which had an activated charcoal lining. Those were only good for 30 days once removed from the package.

If you guessed that then you would be wrong. The military still uses charcoal lined MOPP suits.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I bought a few gas masks at an auction one of my mom's patients had when he was selling his estate. Let's just say he had things stored up all in his house and buried for basically a nuke strike or something. Guns, ammo, all sorts of stuff. Heck I ended up getting 2 cases + 450 rds of chinese surplus 7.62x39 ammo there. For $30

 

[swatdoc]

If you guessed that then you would be wrong. The military still uses charcoal lined MOPP suits.

Respectfully, I disagree. What I was referring to was the older BDO (Battle Dress Overgarment) now replaced by a CPO (Chemical Protective Overgarment) called JSLIST (Joint Services Lightweight Integrated Suit Technology). The charcoal lined BDO would rub off on your skin as you wore the suit.

The new JSLIST uses fabric made with spheres of encapsulated activated carbon. The suit is also are air permeable which allows the wearer to perspire and cool to a slightly greater degree. It also is launder-able and has a longer duty-life once out of the package (as long it's not exposed).

If your point is what is currently issued, then true. With all things in the supply chain, what is issued to a particular unit may not be the latest available gear.

More info on JSLIST here:

Just to provide clarity. MOPP (Mission Oriented Protective Posture) refers to a level of readiness to respond to a CBRN threat designating the manner in which particular elements of protective gear should be worn. I colloquially referred to the suits as MOPP gear. Mea culpa.

 

[cce1302]

Not so sure:



Source: Howard Hu, MD, MPH; Jonathan Fine, MD; Paul Epstein, MD, MPH; Karl Kelsey, MD, MOH; Preston Reynolds, MD, PhD; Bailus Walker, PhD, MPH. "Tear Gas: Harassing Agent or Toxic Chemical Weapon?" Journal of the American Medical Association. August 4, 1989.

Oh, now you tell me!

Respectfully, I disagree. What I was referring to was the older BDO (Battle Dress Overgarment) now replaced by a CPO (Chemical Protective Overgarment) called JSLIST (Joint Services Lightweight Integrated Suit Technology). The charcoal lined BDO would rub off on your skin as you wore the suit.

The new JSLIST uses fabric made with spheres of encapsulated activated carbon. The suit is also are air permeable which allows the wearer to perspire and cool to a slightly greater degree. It also is launder-able and has a longer duty-life once out of the package (as long it's not exposed).

If your point is what is currently issued, then true. With all things in the supply chain, what is issued to a particular unit may not be the latest available gear.

More info on JSLIST here:

Just to provide clarity. MOPP (Mission Oriented Protective Posture) refers to a level of readiness to respond to a CBRN threat designating the manner in which particular elements of protective gear should be worn. I colloquially referred to the suits as MOPP gear. Mea culpa.

What does that have to do with the Tyvek suits? do those resemble the JSLIST (whenever it may reach the operating forces) in any way? Charcoal/carbon-what's the functional difference, and how does it relate to Tyvek?

 

[swatdoc]

What does that have to do with the Tyvek suits?

Both the Tyvek F and the BDO are impenetrable to water vapor which is a huge difference from the newer technology in the JSLIST. The inability to perspire severely limits an individual's performance curve when suited up.

do those resemble the JSLIST (whenever it may reach the operating forces) in any way?

No. I mentioned the Tyvek F suits because they are available on the civilian market for around $50 and would offer a low-cost alternative to the BDO. They are relatively light weight and low bulk. They do not have charcoal impregnation, but this fact also allows for washing and re-use, unlike the charcoal-lined BDO. In my opinion, it would make more sense to purchase a newly constructed Tyvek F suit than an older surplus BDO where the effective shelf-life may be in question. A disadvantage of Tyvek-F is it's very noisy when moving. The JSLIST suit is a wonderful alternative, but they cost over $400.

Charcoal/carbon-what's the functional difference, and how does it relate to Tyvek?

Charcoal and carbon are essentially the same. The improvement in the JSLIST is encapsulation which keeps the carbon/charcoal from rubbing off on your skin. No relation to Tyvek. I am not aware of any Tyvek suits offering carbon/charcoal impregnation or lining.

 

[GIJEW]

Actually a gas mask could be useful if there ever is a major chemical "release" (chlorine or bromine etc)at Lilly's or Riley Tar & chemical for instance. PRevailing winds would carry that stuff over most of Indpls and the mask would give you the option of "bugging-out".

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

bought a pack of 3 from centerfire for 20$ verry nice and well worth 2 or 3 times that. Never know.... I think of people getting cancer and having lung problems after helping people at ground zero. (9-11) A gass mask could have saved there lungs while they helped save other peoples lives. just a thought.

i saw several different gas masks out there how do you know which are the best? Thanks

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

Um, yeah. I went through this with my mom after 9/11. She went out and purchased everyone in the family gas-masks from some military supply store. You know, the kind that will protect from Anthrax, gases, chemicals, and the like. Although well intentioned, I felt I had to point out to her that if disaster strikes, by the time I find the masks, get all the filters out of the packages (can't unpackage the filter until time to use as it's only good for so long once opened) figure out how to assemble the suckers while in a state of rising anxiety (putting it mildly), and get the masks on two panicking kids, the skin will have melted off of my entire body and my eyes would have popped out and be rolling around at my half melted feet. Lotta good that does me. Not to mention the fact that I'm not about to carry around a bunch of giant gas masks with me everywhere I go. Face it... the lost souls from 9/11 had no idea what was really happening when they died. Masks are merely an after thought to those of us left behind.

Think it through. That's all I'm sayin. The chances of you having enough advanced notice of a deadly airborne chemical are slim to none. If something is so potent that you need a mask... a mask ain't all you need my friends. I personally believe that money can be more wisely spent.

God bless

I humbly disagree, it's just like knowing your weapon. Preparedness and Practice and drill...Plus the idea for the equipment is to buy you time to get to safety. If the threat is bigger than your gear, you're right. YOu're screwed.

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

Chemicak weapons are no more magic bullets than anything else. Most are non-persistant as they were designed to allow advancing troops to entire targeted areas after a gas attack without too much danger to themselves. A good mask and staying indoors and taking some sensible precautions like the ones the Israelis teach their civilians can save your life. The full suits are necessary if you're a soldier, outside, working to counter an attack. The attitude that, "I'm too helpless and ignorant to do anything so I'll remain ignorant" absolutely enrages me.

Where can you latch onto some of that Isreli civillian training?

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

Yeah, the nice thing is that it's completely harmless.

Are you being serious? What is CS? Thanks

 

[Prometheus]

Are you being serious? What is CS? Thanks

It was joke. CS stands for Chlorobenzylmalononitrile.

In the case of a full suit, you'd be screwed.

The idea a mask is useless because you might need a suit is like someone saying a pistol is useless because you might encounter the brigade of armed assailants.

In America if you ever to need protection of this sort it'd be the mask you'd need. As others have noted if it's some other sort of agent you'd be dead anyway.

 

[RealtorWhoCarries]

It was joke. CS stands for Chlorobenzylmalononitrile.

In the case of a full suit, you'd be screwed.

The idea a mask is useless because you might need a suit is like someone saying a pistol is useless because you might encounter the brigade of armed assailants.

In America if you ever to need protection of this sort it'd be the mask you'd need. As others have noted if it's some other sort of agent you'd be dead anyway.

Thanks for your help

 

[Dr Falken]

I have another reason why a gas mask might be useful. If you smoke and drive with your kids in Monroe County, you could slap one of these puppies on your kids and argue that your kids have proper PPE and perhaps get out of that $100 citation they might try to give you for smoking with kids in the car.

 

[cce1302]

Here's part of the Wiki entry on CS:

CS gas is the common name for 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (also called o-Chlorobenzylidene Malononitrile) (chemical formula: C10H5ClN2), a "tear gas" that is used as a riot control agent. It is generally accepted as being non-lethal. CS was discovered by two Americans, Ben Corson and Roger Stoughton, at Middlebury College in 1928, and the chemical gets its name from the first letters of the scientists' surnames.[4] The compound is actually a solid at room temperature, though it is used as an aerosol.
CS was developed and tested secretly at Porton Down in Wiltshire, England, in the 1950s and 1960s. CS was used first on animals, then subsequently on British Army servicemen volunteers. Notably, CS has a limited effect on animals due to "under-developed tear-ducts and protection by fur".[5]

I say it's "harmless" because every member of the military has been exposed to it at least once (I've been gassed with it at least 8 times) and it only causes sinus irritation (crying, snot, etc) and slight burning sensation on your skin. It won't kill you, just make you uncomfortable.

 

[Justus]

The idea a mask is useless because you might need a suit is like someone saying a pistol is useless because you might encounter the brigade of armed assailants.

In America if you ever to need protection of this sort it'd be the mask you'd need. As others have noted if it's some other sort of agent you'd be dead anyway.

Just curious, other than "tear gas", what would we be exposed to that
would need a full-face mask w/o complete bio/chem gear?

.

 

[versuchstier147]

Most things you could use a gas mask for wouldn't irritate your skin.

Burning tire smoke
MACE
Tear gas
You scare the hell out of people (Come on, wearing one is intimidating)
Chlorine gas
Mustard gas (not 100% on this one..)
They (filters) don't go bad from being opened and let sit idle. Only after too much USE do they expire. I keep one in each of my cars.

They're a cheap necessity.