Getting water from a well after a SHTF scenario

[CathyInBlue]

Other than the Romans had indoor plumming and then somehow that vanished for how long again?

Two seemingly unrelated questions: Why do we call it "plumbing"? and Why is the periodic table symbol for lead "Pb"? The Roman word for lead was "plumbum", which they used to make their water supply pipes. The lead poisoning hindered their health.

Fast forward to today. We have a continuous stream of FDA approved drugs on the market, supported by huge advertizing blitzes, that in a few years will be the subjects of lawsuit after lawsuit for some side effect or other everyone claims they couldn't have known about. Couple that with GMO crops spawning cancer clusters, and it makes me wonder who had the cleaner diet, modern America or ancient Rome?

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

All that said, there is no historical evidence on this planet that society will totally break down and leave us with a scenario like shown in THE BOOK OF ELI or THE ROAD. Far more likely would be something like Argentina between 2000 and 2004.

What about things like the "carrington event " of 1859-60 ?

 

[melensdad]

What about things like the "carrington event " of 1859-60 ?

That is a perfect example to which I refer. It was only a 3 day event.

But even during that event there were all sorts of engines that started and so that was a non issue too. Why wouldn't a generator start up during a massive sun-spot event? Why wouldn't an older vehicle start up? Why wouldn't a tractor engine fire up without any issues?

Even if it was a month long event those types of engines would still operate.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Please tell me that you're joking.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/History_of_the_internal_combustion_engine

The developement of the internal combustion engine up to 1860 is almost entirely theoretical and experimental. Most information on them exist exclusively in patent documents. They were not widely used. The explosion in their use came in the decades after 1860, after the Carrington Event. If we had a new Carrington class event, it would be completely novel with respect to the effects on ICEs, even Diesels.

 

[stlaser]

Two seemingly unrelated questions: Why do we call it "plumbing"? and Why is the periodic table symbol for lead "Pb"? The Roman word for lead was "plumbum", which they used to make their water supply pipes. The lead poisoning hindered their health.

OK, so that was their excuse to why the Roman empire fell what is ours?

 

[churchmouse]

OK, so that was their excuse to why the Roman empire fell what is ours?

Politicians acting like CEO's and breaking it off in any available hind-quarter just for starters.

The decline of the nuclear family.

A decline in morality and honer.

The down slide of the education system so everyone can be a winner.

And so on and so forth and you end up with 47% of a population that votes themselves a paycheck.

 

[melensdad]

Please tell me that you're joking.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/History_of_the_internal_combustion_engine

The developement of the internal combustion engine up to 1860 is almost entirely theoretical and experimental. Most information on them exist exclusively in patent documents. They were not widely used. The explosion in their use came in the decades after 1860, after the Carrington Event. If we had a new Carrington class event, it would be completely novel with respect to the effects on ICEs, even Diesels.

OK so my timing was off. I will admit that error.

The point I was making would still be valid. Simple engines like tractor and older car engines do not have sensitive electronics. An old distributor on a gas car is not going to be affected by such an event, nor would it be affected by an EMP. Ditto a simple Diesel engine for tractors, most lawnmower type engines, etc. Those older engines do not have anything that would be fried by major sun spots, EMPs, etc.

With no modern electronics of any kind, you'd still see VW "beetles" and older tractors running. My snowcat, tractors, antique cars, etc will all operate. So will tens of thousands of others. Start up your simple generators folks. You'll see us older guys who collect things like steam engines, antique tractors, hit & miss engines and older vehicles with simple engines chugging along without a hiccup. Not going to be an issue.

Now modern inverters, newer vehicles with all sorts of electronics (even electronic ignitions) may be doomed, but the old stuff should run un-affected.

 

[churchmouse]

OK so my timing was off. I will admit that error.

The point I was making would still be valid. Simple engines like tractor and older car engines do not have sensitive electronics. An old distributor on a gas car is not going to be affected by such an event, nor would it be affected by an EMP. Ditto a simple Diesel engine for tractors, most lawnmower type engines, etc. Those older engines do not have anything that would be fried by major sun spots, EMPs, etc.

With no modern electronics of any kind, you'd still see VW "beetles" and older tractors running. My snowcat, tractors, antique cars, etc will all operate. So will tens of thousands of others. Start up your simple generators folks. You'll see us older guys who collect things like steam engines, antique tractors, hit & miss engines and older vehicles with simple engines chugging along without a hiccup. Not going to be an issue.

Now modern inverters, newer vehicles with all sorts of electronics (even electronic ignitions) may be doomed, but the old stuff should run un-affected.

The modern car/truck etc. is more hardened than you realize. They have been subjected to all manner of interference and passed the tests. An EMP or solar flare etc have little effect on them.

 

[stlaser]

Anything with a points ignition will be fine, solid state stuff is most likely toast (maybe, as I hear it there are alot of if and's and but's to solar flares and EMP's). Alot of your newer gen sets will be toast as well.......

OK so my timing was off. I will admit that error.

The point I was making would still be valid. Simple engines like tractor and older car engines do not have sensitive electronics. An old distributor on a gas car is not going to be affected by such an event, nor would it be affected by an EMP. Ditto a simple Diesel engine for tractors, most lawnmower type engines, etc. Those older engines do not have anything that would be fried by major sun spots, EMPs, etc.

With no modern electronics of any kind, you'd still see VW "beetles" and older tractors running. My snowcat, tractors, antique cars, etc will all operate. So will tens of thousands of others. Start up your simple generators folks. You'll see us older guys who collect things like steam engines, antique tractors, hit & miss engines and older vehicles with simple engines chugging along without a hiccup. Not going to be an issue.

Now modern inverters, newer vehicles with all sorts of electronics (even electronic ignitions) may be doomed, but the old stuff should run un-affected.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Anything with a points ignition will be fine, solid state stuff is most likely toast (maybe, as I hear it there are alot of if and's and but's to solar flares and EMP's). Alot of your newer gen sets will be toast as well.......

^^^ THIS ^^^

The only engine/vehicle I would expect to survive a Carrington class EMP would be a diesel with no electric starter, or indeed, electrics of any kind. Of course, such an engine would be a bear to start without a starter motor and battery, but a diesel vehicle always parked at the top of a steep incline can always be push started by popping the clutch (assuming a stick shift).

Also note that during the Carrington Event, telegraph wires up on the poles, as large a gauge as they are, were set on fire in some places. If the sun can pump enough amperage through those cables to ignite the insulation back then, I guarantee you that a modern automobile, even one that uses large gauge plug wires and a points-based distributor will have beau coup problems if it's in one of those similar locations. Could a solid state electronic ignition automobile luck out and be somewhere on the planet where the magnetic flux just never gets high enough to fry its circuitry? Sure. Do you want to bet your life on being so lucky? No, you do not.

 

[churchmouse]

I will have to look up a carrington class event. Not familiar. Go up into the stickys and read some of the posts on the new vehicles ability to withstand and survive such things. They are already shielded. It is a good read.

 

[nate1865]

What diameter is the pump's cylinder?

The diameter is slightly less than 3".

 

[nate1865]

Anyone know of a reputable well person in the Indy area? I cannot get my pitless adapter out. I have googled and I cannot find one like mine.
Thanks!

Did you build your own T handle adapter for it?

For instance, if it is a 1 1/4" pipe, get a 6' section of black pipe, two 1 foot sections, and a T to connect them all. Stick the thing in the top of the pitless adapter, screw it on, and pull like the dickens.

 

[CathyInBlue]

Wikipedia: Carrington Event

 

[melensdad]

^^^ THIS ^^^

The only engine/vehicle I would expect to survive a Carrington class EMP would be a diesel with no electric starter. . .

I have a couple that can start w/hand cranks

 

[churchmouse]

Wikipedia: Carrington Event

Thanks. Not sure how a modern vehicle or a genny would hold up to this.

 

[stlaser]

So to install in the same well as a submersible you would either have to pull the submersible entirely or at the minimum pull the pitless and reinstall after dropping the cylinder for the hand pump in the well. That is if they will both fit in a 4" case......

The diameter is slightly less than 3".

 

[stlaser]

Negative, all the pitless adapters I have seen unscrew internally. You would need to (if you do not have the correct tool and most do not) take a piece of 1/2" conduit and smash the one end slightly to enlongate it. Drop this into the pitless and unscrew it from the side of the case. Then pull your brains out. A makeshift tripod and pulling will help out alot in this scenario.....

Did you build your own T handle adapter for it?

For instance, if it is a 1 1/4" pipe, get a 6' section of black pipe, two 1 foot sections, and a T to connect them all. Stick the thing in the top of the pitless adapter, screw it on, and pull like the dickens.

 

[stlaser]

PTO gen set?

I have a couple that can start w/hand cranks

 

[melensdad]

PTO gen set?

Nope. Engines. Those then run the PTO generators. Generators need something to turn them. I have vehicles with engines that can be started with simply cranks, in addition to old style diesels without electronics.

FWIW the 2 streams bordering my property could be used to turn paddles, which would in turn turn a generator.