Giving yourself PERMISSION to use deadly force

[Johnny C]

OK, lets get down to the nitty gritty.

I have a buddy who teaches self defence, and he tells me that mentally, you have to have already given yourself permission to use deadly force in certain instances, of you might freeze, not wanting to HURT/KILL someone and end up dead yourself.

Its easy to say I would shoot someone, but for those of us, like myself, who wouldnt hurt a fly, this becomes a big issue. I can truthfully say, I dont know if I could actually shoot someone or not. One incident I was involved in makes me think so, but you never know for sure unless you have done it.

Are there any books, articles or training geared to overcoming these types of issues.

 

[Fargo]

Col Dave Grossman wrote a book called "On Killing" on precisely that subject. You might want to check it out.

Best,

Joe

 

[LEaSH]

I'm pretty much a pacifist. I don't know if I have ever been mad enough to actually cause someone permanent harm. Everyone has been mad before, right?

My spiritual philosophy stops me from losing it. But I've never had someone try to harm my loved ones. So aside from primitive impulses, vengeance, or vendettas, a healthy/rational human will never kill.

God forbids me to maim or kill. But I think he does want me to kick asses sometimes.

The warrior/primitive/psycho thing I never understood. Sheepdogs are understandable.

 

[ocsdor]

...My spiritual philosophy stops me from losing it....

My fear of being raped in prison stops me.

 

[mk2ja]

You might also take a look at Massad Ayoob's In the Gravest Extreme. It deals especially with the use of the firearm, but it addresses more than just that, including the correct attitude that we really must posses as responsible carriers.

 

[Johnny C]

Thanks guys, I'll ckeck those books out.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

I'm a very non confrontational person. However through Martial Arts, and Military training. I have learned that in a matter of life or death. It's either you, or them. I personally with whatever means necessary, am going to see my family again. It's not about power or control, it's about survival and self defense.

 

[colt45er]

God forbids me to maim or kill. But I think he does want me to kick asses sometimes.

While not trying to start a disagreement, but where has God forbid you to kill? There is a commandment of do not murder. There are many circumstances that would not warrant deadly force. I have never found any verses in the Bible that support "God forbids me to maim or kill"

Curious as to what authority you are stating.

 

[SavageEagle]

I have a copy of "In the Gravest Extreme" If you'd like to buy it at a cheaper price. Very good book and it came to me highly recommended.

 

[LCPer]

I can NOT believe some of the posts I see in this forum. I carry concealed, I carry open, But I am not sure if I could actually kill someone. Isn't that sort of an oxymoron? If you carry a weapon for personal protection or have one for home defense you had very well be ready to kill a BG. If you have to think about it, it most likely will be too late. If you don' know without a doubt get rid of that personal or home defense item. When faced with a life and death crisis when milliseconds count indecision will simply get you killed. Carrying is a gigantic responsibility and should never be taken lightly.

 

[MrsGungho]

I owned but didn't carry until I knew I was in the mindset to use it. If you are carrying and not sure if you can kill or not you might as well be carrying a paperweight.

I can NOT believe some of the posts I see in this forum. I carry concealed, I carry open, But I am not sure if I could actually kill someone. Isn't that sort of an oxymoron? If you carry a weapon for personal protection or have one for home defense you had very well be ready to kill a BG. If you have to think about it, it most likely will be too late. If you don' know without a doubt get rid of that personal or home defense item. When faced with a life and death crisis when milliseconds count indecision will simply get you killed. Carrying is a gigantic responsibility and should never be taken lightly.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I carry my weapon/s in the even though I hope I never never never NEVER have to use them in defense of myself or another.

but I have admitted to myself that I will if I believe that I must.

If I didn't think or believe this, then I'd leave my weapon at home.

In fact, I HAVE chosen to leave my weapon at home before because I'd been having a rather bad few days and was mightily stressed out.

So, yes, I think there is some "mental permission" going on, but also mental policing as well.

-J-

 

[99zhuggerz99]

+1 for 'On Killing', its a very informative book, albeit its very acedemic (thus dry)

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I've always had the feeling that killing someone in defense of myself would be a harder decision. However, were they attacking my younger sisters or niece there would be no hesitation. I just remind myself daily that if I don't act legally and properly, someone's younger sister or niece will be attacked one day because I failed to act.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I guess think of it less as permission and more of a moral obligation to do it the right way. This is why I don't believe in warning shots or shooting "to wound", aside from the fact that both put bystander in serious harms way.

 

[SavageEagle]

I wouldn't carry if I wasn't convinced I could pull the trigger. And it doesn't matter how pissed off I am, there's no way I would draw out of sheer anger and endanger my life or someone else's for no good reason. There are a lot of people that say if they are going to draw their gun they WILL shoot. Somehow I either don't believe that or find it foolish. If in the process of drawing my pistol, they just surrender, I couldn't morally or legally shoot them.

Oh, and I gave the OP a good deal on "The Truth About Self Protection" and "In the Gravest Extreme". I read both books and they were VERY informative. They may be older, but that doesn't mean outdated. Well, maybe a few things, but the overall books are must reads and I'm glad I read them. I'm also equally glad that I can pass them on to someone and that it may just make a difference in his life, as they did mine.

 

[LEaSH]

I have a LTCH to go to the range or where ever I can go legally with a hand gun.

If I ever felt the need to carry somewhere I might do so, but I'd usually just avoid it altogether.

Lots of folks on here fantasize about being in a defensive shooting much like a little leaguer might fantasizes about hitting a grand slam.

I have the ability to shoot a stationary target with great ease. Some folks would have you believe they won't shake, flinch, cower, etc. when they get up to bat.

 

[JustOneMore]

I think alot of comes down to the basic fight or flight instinct for me. I will try to diffuse any situation or just try to get out of there. But if faced with a crazed bg that has made it clear that he is going to do harm to me or mine, or was even advancing towards us with a weapon of his own that would lead me to believe that he would, I would not hesitate to fire.

 

[Glock21]

I believe that a lot of the immediate action (draw, aim fire) can become mechanical through lots of training and root memory practice.

I've been in three potential shoot situations in my life and all three times my training kicked in and I did what I'd trained to do - I moved, drew and brought my sites up. Luckly, all three badguys decided to find something else to do and I didn't have to follow through on the shots. I have complete confidence that I will shoot when a proper shoot situation arrives. I didn't hesitate, or even think about it as it was happening...it was afterwards that my system crashed and I had to deal with the emotional side.

So...

The real issue to me will be the aftermath of shooting someone. Grossman and Ayoob address it well. There is another book called Blood Lessons by Charles Remsberg, you might find it helpful, as well as Deadly Force Encounters by Dr. Alexis Artwohl &Loren W. Christensen.

Thinking about it and asking such questions is really the first step with it. Do some reading and get out to hear one of the above mentioned people speak. They all make appearences and you can usually find a way to get in the door.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I can NOT believe some of the posts I see in this forum. I carry concealed, I carry open, But I am not sure if I could actually kill someone. Isn't that sort of an oxymoron? If you carry a weapon for personal protection or have one for home defense you had very well be ready to kill a BG. If you have to think about it, it most likely will be too late. If you don' know without a doubt get rid of that personal or home defense item. When faced with a life and death crisis when milliseconds count indecision will simply get you killed. Carrying is a gigantic responsibility and should never be taken lightly.

If I may suggest, the reason you're seeing these posts is precisely because it is a gigantic responsibility and should never be taken lightly.

We who choose to train, to practice, and to be ready to use our firearms as needed all have that idea of "yeah, I think I could." or "I'm pretty sure I could.", but none of us will be able to speak with authority in the future tense. That is, we can't honestly say "Yes, I definitely could shoot another human being." unless we are deluding ourselves. What some of us can say is <sigh> "Yeah... I did have to shoot someone." Even they cannot say they would do it again, without any question at all.

I would go so far as to say that if someone does say he or she could shoot another human being and not think twice about it... that person is the one I would prefer to not see carrying. No, I am not speaking of law. I'm speaking of personal preference. Someone very smart told me years ago that if you ever come to work and there's nothing left for you to learn, hang up your stethoscope and go home, because at that point, you become dangerous. I take that lesson to heart and apply it to the rest of my life as well.

There is always something else to learn. I've done the mental gymnastics, but I still hope never to find out for certain whether or not I could kill another person Should the need arise and I find the mental wherewithal to do it, I will have the necessary tool nearby and the training to use it.

Blessings,
Bill