GM plant / United Auto Workers Local 23

[Armed Citizen]

I know they can all apply at the Toyota-metropolis out near Greensburg. Oh wait, I think they only pay $14.75 to $21.00 per hour. Sorry I thought I was being helpful.....
Lets see $14.75 to $21.00 per hour equals, Hmmmmm #1 selling automobile company in America. I don't get it ?????

 

[localone]

There are alot of good and bad points from all the comments but no one ever bought up the Pay of these CEO of GM and what he makes and the bonuses he gets....If these companies stopped paying the CEO's hundred of millions of dollars they could afford to put alot more people to work...Im looking for more recent earnings but this is all thats shown....
GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned $9.3 million in salary and bonus in 2006, nearly double what he earned in 2005.
Chrysler's new CEO, Bob Nardelli, became a symbol of corporate excess when he left Home Depot early this year with a $210 million severance package. Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus
At Honda, the top 21 earned $11.1 million, combined, in salary and bonuses, SEC filings show. Thats for 21 people not 1 as the U.S comapnies

 

[localone]

I know they can all apply at the Toyota-metropolis out near Greensburg. Oh wait, I think they only pay $14.75 to $21.00 per hour. Sorry I thought I was being helpful.....
Lets see $14.75 to $21.00 per hour equals, Hmmmmm #1 selling automobile company in America. I don't get it ?????

They did a article about that in the Chicago sun times some time back and the UAW came back and said the UAW employees get a hourly rate with no bonuses and the foreign companys pay a less hourly rate with monthly bonusses which come out to or more than a UAW employee

 

[Armed Citizen]

Most America workers have gotten GREEDY (From CEO down to the janitor) and they have effectively ran us out of many markets.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Hmmmmm #1 selling automobile company in America. I don't get it ?????

You are right you don't get it. Check your facts.

Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

 

[Fletch]

They did a article about that in the Chicago sun times some time back and the UAW came back and said the UAW employees get a hourly rate with no bonuses and the foreign companys pay a less hourly rate with monthly bonusses which come out to or more than a UAW employee

I'm going to go ahead and assume that monthly bonuses come as a result of meeting performance goals, not simply "making rate". That right there would be the crucial difference, IMO.

 

[localone]

These cars are being made by supply and demand...Right now Ford(was doing a revamp there this weekend) is pumping cars out 1 every 90 seconds...Seems pretty fast to me..but the demand went up so there going to be doing 1 every 56 seconds..the employees pay stays the same...no extra pay for picking up the pace its just what the demand calls for.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

There are alot of good and bad points from all the comments but no one ever bought up the Pay of these CEO of GM and what he makes and the bonuses he gets....If these companies stopped paying the CEO's hundred of millions of dollars they could afford to put alot more people to work...Im looking for more recent earnings but this is all thats shown....
GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned $9.3 million in salary and bonus in 2006, nearly double what he earned in 2005.
Chrysler's new CEO, Bob Nardelli, became a symbol of corporate excess when he left Home Depot early this year with a $210 million severance package. Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus
At Honda, the top 21 earned $11.1 million, combined, in salary and bonuses, SEC filings show. Thats for 21 people not 1 as the U.S comapnies

That's because only union rats are jealous of other people and what they make, and because most people on here are capable of basic math.

So let's take Rick Wagoner. Round his pay to $10 million per year. at $100K per employee, if he got paid nothing you could here 100 employees. Wow, that's a huge deal. So you would trade one of 50 guys in the world capable of running a company the size of GM for another $7800 in monthly union dues? I'd say he was a bargain.

Do you think any of the guys you mentioned go out and hit the cronic and down some 40s during lunch, then go back to work and just sit in their office and have sex with their secretary?

The myth about unions is that they care about workers. They care about union dues. They don't want to make workers more skilled. They don't want to make them more valuable. They want a lot of stupid workers who pay insane dues and don't question union leadership. If the union cared about workers they would push for technologies that make workers more efficient and the creation of new industries and companies so that more smarter and more valuable workers could get higher paying jobs. Instead they hire scabs to picket job sites and Walmart while displaying contempt for capitalism and its successful participants. Screw unions.

 

[88GT]

I have been following this as well. A sad day indeed.
I failed to notice the grocery stores offering to cut these families bill in half,
I failed to notice the utility companies offering to cut their bills in half,
I missed the article offering a them lower property taxes on their current homes provided they continued to work for half the wage.

I won't be a slave to any employer, cut my wages in half,
give me two checks and a road map.

Head north. I hear Detroit's got a lot of similarly minded folk. You should fit in nicely.

 

[Fletch]

By some cosmic coincidence, this just popped up on the FB blogroll:

"Those politicians, professors and union bosses who curse big business are fighting for a lower standard of living."
-- Ludwig von Mises

 

[irishfan]

I don't agree with the people making $25 an hour to push a button or put a part in on an assembly line but a couple things that make me think are this. 1) When the higher paying jobs were here in the United States you did not see school systems under water or towns going broke like you do today. 2) When the big factories were still spread throughout America you had billions in tax money pouring into the system that is no longer there. 3) If the cost of labor has been so extreme then why have car prices in a lot of cases either stayed the same or even went up while labor levels have been cut?

 

[Fletch]

3) If the cost of labor has been so extreme then why have car prices in a lot of cases either stayed the same or even went up while labor levels have been cut?

Credit expansion. In the last 30 - 40 years, the rules for consumer credit have changed drastically, allowing sticker prices on expensive goods like cars to skyrocket under the promise of "low monthly payments".

For hours and hours and hours of ranting about this, go to DaveRamsey.com.

 

[localone]

That's because only union rats are jealous of other people and what they make, and because most people on here are capable of basic math.

So let's take Rick Wagoner. Round his pay to $10 million per year. at $100K per employee, if he got paid nothing you could here 100 employees. Wow, that's a huge deal. So you would trade one of 50 guys in the world capable of running a company the size of GM for another $7800 in monthly union dues? I'd say he was a bargain.

Do you think any of the guys you mentioned go out and hit the cronic and down some 40s during lunch, then go back to work and just sit in their office and have sex with their secretary?

The myth about unions is that they care about workers. They care about union dues. They don't want to make workers more skilled. They don't want to make them more valuable. They want a lot of stupid workers who pay insane dues and don't question union leadership. If the union cared about workers they would push for technologies that make workers more efficient and the creation of new industries and companies so that more smarter and more valuable workers could get higher paying jobs. Instead they hire scabs to picket job sites and Walmart while displaying contempt for capitalism and its successful participants. Screw unions.

U sound like a guy who 1... couldnt get a union Job that you appllied for or 2...Have lost your job due to the union not sticking up for you

 

[E5RANGER375]

Head north. I hear Detroit's got a lot of similarly minded folk. You should fit in nicely.

yep.

i think a lot of people just think .... "oh i make $80K a year so i can go and buy a huge house with 4 cars because i can "afford" the payment"

well in todays ecconomy thats stupid thinking. no job is safe. plan as if you will be only making $10 an hour tomorrow, and then you wont get in a bind on your mortgage or payments by overstretching yourself.

My wife works at a good job, and I have a good job. but im looking to get out of what I do real soon, and there is no job around that will pay me what I make, so I have planned my style of life always knowing I wouldnt do this for the rest of my life. I pay cash for everything and stick to my budget. buying today and paying for it tomorrow will only get you into trouble eventuly. I dont care if you only make $8 an hour, you CAN live without going into debt. it just takes dicipline. dont buy a happy meal, if you can only afford peanut butter sandwiches. if you eat enough peanut butter then you will eventualy be able to move to big macs once you get on your feet. That is my deffinition of the American dream. always strive for one step up the next year, and that is true success. patience and dicipline are key. ok, im off the soap box.

i just dont have sympathy for people who live beyond their means and then cry when they cant maintain it later. and I think thats what we see a lot of today and why our ecconomy is trying to reset itself. look at previous generations and see what they got by on, and still were able to show something for their hard work when they retired instead of relying on a govt check. whats the old saying? "dont count your chickens before they hatch"

 

[Ramen]

Credit expansion. In the last 30 - 40 years, the rules for consumer credit have changed drastically, allowing sticker prices on expensive goods like cars to skyrocket under the promise of "low monthly payments".

For hours and hours and hours of ranting about this, go to DaveRamsey.com.

And this is part of the reason why only millionaires can afford to buy a brand new car.

 

[irishfan]

yep.

i think a lot of people just think .... "oh i make $80K a year so i can go and buy a huge house with 4 cars because i can "afford" the payment"

well in todays ecconomy thats stupid thinking. no job is safe. plan as if you will be only making $10 an hour tomorrow, and then you wont get in a bind on your mortgage or payments by overstretching yourself.

My wife works at a good job, and I have a good job. but im looking to get out of what I do real soon, and there is no job around that will pay me what I make, so I have planned my style of life always knowing I wouldnt do this for the rest of my life. I pay cash for everything and stick to my budget. buying today and paying for it tomorrow will only get you into trouble eventuly. I dont care if you only make $8 an hour, you CAN live without going into debt. it just takes dicipline. dont buy a happy meal, if you can only afford peanut butter sandwiches. if you eat enough peanut butter then you will eventualy be able to move to big macs once you get on your feet. That is my deffinition of the American dream. always strive for one step up the next year, and that is true success. patience and dicipline are key. ok, im off the soap box.

You are spot on here but its not the way America wants to live. I would love a large home in the country but I can't afford it. I live in a smaller 2 bedroom which I own outright and the bank can't take away. If a lot of people lived closer to the wage they make then a lot of these problems would not be going on. Unfortunately, the leaders of our country keep preaching to people that they need to spend!!!

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Credit expansion. In the last 30 - 40 years, the rules for consumer credit have changed drastically, allowing sticker prices on expensive goods like cars to skyrocket under the promise of "low monthly payments".

For hours and hours and hours of ranting about this, go to DaveRamsey.com.

Car prices have also gone up radically because the government has mandated changes "for our good" that make them much more expensive to produce as well.

For examples of items which start out costing alot and end up costing much less, see consumer electronics - just about any of them.

 

[E5RANGER375]

You are spot on here but its not the way America wants to live. I would love a large home in the country but I can't afford it. I live in a smaller 2 bedroom which I own outright and the bank can't take away. If a lot of people lived closer to the wage they make then a lot of these problems would not be going on. Unfortunately, the leaders of our country keep preaching to people that they need to spend!!!

agreed. i dont want a bank having control over my home. i too wanna live in the country, but I also wanna open a gun shop and make it into a living. so until I can pay outright for both, then I will be plenty happy with what I OWN outright now.

I truely believe people will see banks coming and asking for lump sums to pay off debts even if they have made all of their payments. If you can avoid financing anything, then I strongly believe now is the time to do it. im not slamming people who have a mortgage, but Im advising against it if you can avoid it. im not a financial advisor, but i know what has worked for me. in the end, we are all the only ones responsible for the decisions we make today. and todays decisions WILL have effects on tomorrow.

 

[Armed Citizen]

My father-in-law works for a major manufacturing facility in Indy. He has worked there nearly 40 years and refuses to retire, he stated "the money is too good". He makes almost $40.00 per hour and works 7 days a week. He gets double time on Sunday's and triple time on holidays. Are you doing the math? He once told me that his CNC machine went down for half his shift and required repairs. I asked him if his boss reallocated his work. He stated "oh no, that is against my union contract, I sit and wait until it is repaired" I asked if he went over and worked on another machine? "once again, against my union contract" Do you do any cleaning? yep you guessed it "against my union contract" Luckily for him the company he works for does a lot of military contracts. So his hourly wage is absorbed through our tax paying dollars.

 

[LEaSH]

I grew up in mid-Michigan.

This scenario with the local stamping plant has been happening for about 30 years. This is going to hurt - but something has to give. The UAW does not care.

Next year GM will close down the facility and leave an empty building. All that equipment will be set up in Mexico or Canada or sold. There will be no new business starting up in that building. There will be no new similar businesses moving to the area.

If you were considering setting up a manufacturing plant in Indianapolis, would you even bother? Knowing that the union mentality is ingrained in the existing local workforce is what keeps new businesses from moving into places like Anderson, IN and Flint, MI.

Financial incentives be damned, because once they run out there is no way a corporation is going to be dragged around by their smalls by the union.

Because let's face it, union leadership is mostly comprised of failures themselves; failed lawyers, failed politicians, failed business executives. Nobody goes to school to become a union leader, they just end up there after exhausting their goals of having a real job. How could GM management respect them?