-
Be sure to read this post! Beware of scammers. https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/classifieds-new-online-payment-guidelines-rules-paypal-venmo-zelle-etc.511734/
Good encounter with state LEO.
- Thread starter 22lr
- Start date
The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana
Member Benefits:
Fewer Ads! Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership Discuss anti-gun legislation Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses Discover free outdoor shooting areas View up to date on firearm-related events Share photos & video with other members ...and so much more!
Member Benefits:
Funny thing is, during a traffic stop you present your license and permit and tell the cop your carrying....he may ask for your gun and run the numbers to see if it's stolen.
Then you go to the 1500, give the cop your gun to zip tie, he hands it back....no permit or ID check, no running of any numbers to check it aint "hot"
Then you go to the 1500, give the cop your gun to zip tie, he hands it back....no permit or ID check, no running of any numbers to check it aint "hot"
I've only had one encounter with a LEO while carrying and I was pleasantly surprised. It was with a State Trooper that responded after my Jeep caught on fire at a gas pump (thats another story for sure haha). I thought it would be good to have some sort of report on file in case I needed to file an insurance claim so I called the state troopers office since I was outside of city limits. The LEO asked for my license and registration, so I handed him my license and we went back to my car to find the registration. I then informed him I thought it was probably in my glove compartment and that I also had a firearm in there as well. I asked whether he wanted to get it out or what exactly he wanted me to do, and he just laughed and waved it off and said "Don't worry about it, I saw your permit in your wallet when you got your license out. Just remember when you're holding that gun, you're mad at your Jeep not me!". I was extremely pleased that it wasn't some big fiasco, which I kind of expected it might as I thought LEOs might be a little cynical about a younger person with a gun. + 1 for the LEO for not assuming that every 20 year old with a firearm is a gangbanging drug dealer.
I would love to respond to each of your points, but I know it would just fuel the fire. You successfully twisted and intentionally misinterpreted nearly everything I said. For that, you deserve some credit.
But I will address some of the key points:
1) Me not writing someone a ticket is not anyone being prejudiced, it's called discretion. I have the option to write someone a ticket or not. Frequently it depends on demeanor and honesty. This is the same as clocking someone at 85mph and when you ask how fast they think they are going they say "61?" or something similar. Honesty can get you a long way and being upfront and open about your gun possession or your true speed can go a long way. If you want to call yourself discriminated against b/c you get a ticket when you are sneakily carrying your gun and don't tell the officer, your logic doesn't hold water. You can't be discriminated against for something the officer doesn't know.
2) I was not calling the constitution a joke, I was calling your claims that being deprived of your gun for 3 minutes is a constitutional violation a joke. Another nice twist on your part.
And yes, I have read the 2nd amendment. It was in law school. Have you?
How about the 4th?
Allow me to ask a question about point #2 there...
How do you reconcile this:
..and the siezure of a handgun (property) without Warrant, cause, or suspicion?
"I pulled you over for a broken turn signal, but I am disarming you for my safety" does not appear to fall under any of those categories.
EDIT: BTW, I am aware of Terry, which is why I mentioned cause and suspicion as well.
Who mentioned anything about CC? Shankdog was referring to people not telling the police if they are armed. No you don't have to tell them, same as you can play dumb when they ask if you know why they stopped you. If you're honest (in either case) it may get you a break. Giving you a break for telling them you're armed is no different than giving someone a break for being honest and saying that they may have been speeding.
Who mentioned anything about CC? Shankdog was referring to people not telling the police if they are armed. No you don't have to tell them, same as you can play dumb when they ask if you know why they stopped you. If you're honest (in either case) it may get you a break. Giving you a break for telling them you're armed is no different than giving someone a break for being honest and saying that they may have been speeding.
If one is "sneakily" carrying a gun, one would assume that it is not OCd, eh?
The point of NOT telling the LEO is the fear of what has been mentioned in this thread, and others. An officer disarming a law abiding citizen, playing with a loaded gun he/she may not be familiar with, all without probable cause.
Hence, as I said before, I still want to know how confiscating my handgun does not violate the 4th...
If one is "sneakily" carrying a gun, one would assume that it is not OCd, eh?
The point of NOT telling the LEO is the fear of what has been mentioned in this thread, and others. An officer disarming a law abiding citizen, playing with a loaded gun he/she may not be familiar with, all without probable cause.
Hence, as I said before, I still want to know how confiscating my handgun does not violate the 4th...
Given the context of the thread, no I wouldn't assume he was referring to CC. I gathered that he was referring to not notifying an officer that you're carrying, since that's what he was talking about. I guess I read it differently than you though, maybe he'll come back and clarify.
Even more reason, in my mind, to disagree with his claim of "sneakiness".
If it is not legally required to inform a LEO that I am carrying, then it is not being "sneaky" if I don't tell him, and I resent the accusation that licensed gun owners are sneaks, when not breaking the law.
Joe Williams
Shooter
- Jun 26, 2008
- 10,431
- 38
So, here's a question. If one were to choose to present their LTCH to an officer, the officer is now clearly made aware of the fact that IF their are firearms in the vehicle, they are being carried legally. IOW, they do not have even a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime has been committed. How is it that they then feel they have the legal right to pull citizens out of the vehicle, seize their property, and detain them when they KNOW they have no cause to believe or even suspect a crime has been committed?
If some cops wouldn't do this, it'd be a heck of a lot less of an issue to let them know we are carrying to prevent some sort of "misunderstanding."
If some cops wouldn't do this, it'd be a heck of a lot less of an issue to let them know we are carrying to prevent some sort of "misunderstanding."
Exactly! Merely having an LTCH does not equal RS or PC. Not only do a lot of us feel this violates our rights (yes, we know how YOU feel Shankdog), it is also downright dangerous! How often do we hear, or are taught, NEVER to hand a loaded weapon to anyone? If it went off because of the LEOs unfamiliarity with that particular weapon, I can just bet it would be the citizen that would somehow be blamed.
LEt me give an example I just thought of.
Say a citizen gets spotted on the street, OCing. A LEO asks to see his LTCH. While retriving the LTCH, the LEO notices the citizen has a driver's license. Can the Officer then say:
"I need to see your car, check it for valid plates, registration and insurance, where did you park?"
Merely having a DL, when not driving, cannot in itself be in any way considered reasonable suspicion enough to cause a check of the person's car. So how is merely having an LTCH, reasonable enough suspicion for the LEO to take the gun, detain the person, possibly cuff them, run the serial numbers, then return the gun to the person, sometimes with the rounds, magazine, and gun separated from each other??
Say a citizen gets spotted on the street, OCing. A LEO asks to see his LTCH. While retriving the LTCH, the LEO notices the citizen has a driver's license. Can the Officer then say:
"I need to see your car, check it for valid plates, registration and insurance, where did you park?"
Merely having a DL, when not driving, cannot in itself be in any way considered reasonable suspicion enough to cause a check of the person's car. So how is merely having an LTCH, reasonable enough suspicion for the LEO to take the gun, detain the person, possibly cuff them, run the serial numbers, then return the gun to the person, sometimes with the rounds, magazine, and gun separated from each other??
