Got ticketed for fishing w/o a license.... except I wasn't fishing...

[USMC_0311]

What are you referring to when you say "opened up the motor 2 minutes before time"? I'm unaware what regulation this breaks. I'd like to know so that I don't break it.

I'm surprised to hear of so many bad encounters with game wardens on this thread. My experience with game wardens in Indiana and Kentucky have been nothing but professional and pleasant.

As to the OP- fight it for principle or pay it for convenience, don't know much else to offer.

Some private lakes may have rules on what times you can go over idle speed.

 

[iChokePeople]

One more vote for 'pay it and cut your losses'. I can't imagine you'd find a judge or jury who would let you off once both sides agreed that you had a rod in your hand along the bank where your BIL was fishing, and particularly when he testifies that when he saw you, you quickly put it down. I wish you the best of luck if you DO decide to fight it, and hope you're not offended when I put my money on what I believe is a nearly sure thing.

 

[dcary7]

The CO's could use discretion if they feel confident about someone not poaching.

I don't know why a warning wasn't given if the OP was straight up and forth coming.

$$$ probably.

I think if I had the time, I'd fight it. I don't like the idea of having been accused of something as despicable as a poacher. An that's what the CO did when he issued the ticket.

For the record... out of that 135$ ticket... the DNR sees roughly $3 dollars of it.. give or a take a few dollars.. the rest is "court costs". I know this for a fact. It is more beneficial for the DNR for a person to actually purchase a license... the DNR doesn't "get rich" or "pay for their equipment" from issuing citations. All of the money of that citation goes towards "legal fees"

as for the OP... lets keep something in mind.... although he may have been incorrectly cited with this violation... nearly every person that CO stops... regardless of how clear and obvious the violation is... will try and deny it or defend his actions. Officers are people... people make mistakes... when 90% of the ppl you encounter deny their actions... it can be hard to separate the BS from the truth.

Unfortunately in this case, multiple rods, it was in your hand... if the lure was in the water..../shrug.. not much you can do about it. You are not likely to win that. Something to consider though...... being cited for "Failure to Possess a License" is a class C Infraction... "Failure to Obtain a License" is a misdemeanor...(obtain = purchase) the officer wrote you a significantly lessened citation. This way you dont have a misdemeanor on your record, which he very well could have done. So... in this respect, the officer CAN and DID use his discretion. By definition, you were fishing... dont even have to say you cast out... if you dipped the lure in the water it counts... look at using a cane pole... sorry man, but there isnt much you can do about this.

-dcary7

 

[wildhare]

You can't run past 10mph before sunrise.

 

[justanotherjarhe]

Show in court. Plead your case. Hope for the best. Feels good to atleast exercise your rights.

 

[duff]

Call/email the prosecuter and tell them the situation including the 2 hour drive. I had a simular event where I was duck hunting and accidentially picked up 2 lead shot shells and of course the CO checked me and issued a ticket. It was an honest mistake as I had about 50 shells on me at the time. I didn't give the guy any grief as he has a job to do just like I do so no sweat, I messed up and was willing to pay the price. When I contacted the prosecuter he told me it wasn't worth the time to hear the case. I wouldn't worry about the signed affidavid unless they suggest that but I would fight it if what you say is accurate.

Only you know what really took place so if you were fishing it might be worth paying the fine and moving on. If you weren't...a licensed fsherman is allowed 3 poles at once and just because you are hanging out next to someone who is fishing doesn't mean you are fishing.

 

[! twitty]

On the bright side I received an email stating that June 4-5 are a free fishing weekend from Indiana DNR, so feel free to swing and toss rods all weekend long...

 

[Cru]

I say pay it. Playing with the rod counts as “fishing” in my book.

“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"

 

[CountryBoy19]

I say pay it. Playing with the rod counts as “fishing” in my book.

“Play stupid games, win stupid prizes"

And I supposed sitting inside a car counts as driving as well in your book?

Driving a car counts as speeding too?

Shooting a gun counts a poaching?

Come on, playing with a rod is not fishing. If you really feel that way then I'm sorry but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Either way, I'm going to call the prosecutor tomorrow or Friday.

The citation says to wait at least 10 days before calling. It's been pretty close to 10 business days now so I'll give them a call.

 

[sig shooter]

ticketed w/o a license

Call/email the prosecuter and tell them the situation including the 2 hour drive. I had a simular event where I was duck hunting and accidentially picked up 2 lead shot shells and of course the CO checked me and issued a ticket. It was an honest mistake as I had about 50 shells on me at the time. I didn't give the guy any grief as he has a job to do just like I do so no sweat, I messed up and was willing to pay the price. When I contacted the prosecuter he told me it wasn't worth the time to hear the case. I wouldn't worry about the signed affidavid unless they suggest that but I would fight it if what you say is accurate.

Only you know what really took place so if you were fishing it might be worth paying the fine and moving on. If you weren't...a licensed fsherman is allowed 3 poles at once and just because you are hanging out next to someone who is fishing doesn't mean you are fishing.

But he had the pole in his hand at the time.

 

[Squirrel Dog]

If you did not ever put a line in the water you were NOT fishing. Handling a rod on the bank is not fishing. Good grief it's not illegal to touch a fishing pole. If it was they would be writing everyone carring a fishing pole coming out of Bass Pro if they passed by any water going to the car! You are not fishing unless you are making a attempt to catch something ( ie line in the water at some point). State your position in court then ask the CO if he ever saw you have a line in the water.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Well, there we were sitting along the shore of Salamonie talking and he was fishing. He switched to a different fishing pole and so I picked up the pole he just put down. I was goofing around with it, tapping the lure on the log in front of me, messing with the reel etc, but NOT fishing. (? ROTFL, I always say that too until I catch something)

Then the CO comes up, my BIL looks at me and says, "You should probably put that pole down just in case he thinks you're fishing". So I did that, but it was too late. CO came up and asked for our fishing licenses. I tried to explain to the CO the situation without completely embarrassing my BIL about the true reasons I came along (he is extremely sensitive). Either he didn't buy what I was saying, or he just didn't care and he was going to ticket me anyways.

I received a citation for $135, ouch

So now, the question is, just pay the fine and let "them" win, or defend it in court.

Dude, holding the pole, "tapping the lure on a log in the water", ROTDL, what do you think "fishing" IS if it's not tapping and playing around with a bait/lure in the water where the fish are?

Just pay the fine.

BTW, he didn't care, he didn't believe you, none of the rest matters. You were fishing, you didn't have a license. You should have said, "No habla Englese" and you may have had a shot.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'm just going to guess that telling either the CO or the judge to "smell my fingers" is not going to go well. Just call that a hunch.

Blessings,
Bill

The ticket is for fishing, not fishing well and not for catching with out a license. The ticket is for FISHING with out a license.

Any fisherman in the world will tell you fishing is OK, but I'd rather be catching.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Dude, holding the pole, "tapping the lure on a log in the water", ROTDL, what do you think fish IS if it's not tapping and playing around with a bait/lure in the water where the fish are?

Just pay the fine.

BTW, he didn't care, he didn't believe you, none of the rest matters. You were fishing, you didn't have a license. You should have said, "No habla Englese" and you may have had a shot.

How can it be called fishing if the line was never in the water? That is what I don't understand. Last I checked, fish live in water, and they don't really leave that water too often in the interest of their own self-preservation. So if the line never goes in the water, how can holding a pole on the shore be construed as an attempt to catch fish?

 

[reno]

How many fishing rods were present? One, it is his, two, more difficult to explain.
I would follow the advice of FARGO, but also consider, the prosecutor is who will Prosecute you, so you are also explaining your case. Not that big a deal on this infraction,
They may very well dismiss the charges.

 

[CountryBoy19]

How many fishing rods were present? One, it is his, two, more difficult to explain.
I would follow the advice of FARGO, but also consider, the prosecutor is who will Prosecute you, so you are also explaining your case. Not that big a deal on this infraction,
They may very well dismiss the charges.

That's exactly the advice I'm going to follow, I'd just really like to see the IC pertaining to this.

I realize that I'd be explaining my case to my opponent, but in cases like this it can often do good. And it's not like I'm going to say anything to him that I wouldn't say in court if I go. I'm going to tell the truth on what happened and if he still wants to prosecute I'll probably just pay the ticket and forget it.

I do know that conversations with the prosecutor often get the cases thrown out. Had that happen with my brother. He got a parking ticket for parking a semi on the shoulder of the street in front of a tire shop when he got a flat tire. The whole thing was ridiculous and the prosecutor thought so as well. However, he had no idea of the circumstances until my brother called and explained the situation to him. The prosecutor actually laughed about it and mocked the officer that gave him the ticket right before he told him to not even worry about his court date.

I'm hopeful that this will turn out similarly.

 

[finity]

That's exactly the advice I'm going to follow, I'd just really like to see the IC pertaining to this.

I haven't been able to find anything in the IC thast specifically defines "fishing". The only thing that relates to that is from the IAC for the DNR & is fairly generic to both hunting & fishing:

312 IAC 9-2-1 Taking, chasing, and possessing wild animals
Authority: IC 14-22-2-6
Affected: IC 14-22
Sec. 1. A person must not:
(1) take;
(2) chase; or
(3) possess;
a wild animal except as provided by statute or by this article.

Here the IC that requires you to have a fishing license (& some notable exemptions):

IC 14-22-11-8
Fishing license and trout - salmon stamp requirements; exceptions
Sec. 8. (a) This section does not apply to the following:
(1) A person who is:
(A) a resident of Indiana; and
(B) an individual born before April 1, 1943.
(2) A person who is less than eighteen (18) years of age.
(3) A person who is legally blind.
(4) A person who is a resident patient of a state mental institution.
(5) A person who is:
(A) a resident of a health facility (as defined in IC 16-18-2-167) licensed in Indiana; and
(B) taking part in a supervised activity of the health facility.
(6) A person who:
(A) is a resident of Indiana; and
(B) has a developmental disability (as defined by IC 12-7-2-61).
(7) A person whose only participation in fishing is to assist an individual described in subdivision (3), (4), (5), or (6).
(8) A resident of Indiana who fishes during a free sport fishing day designated under IC 14-22-18.
(b) Every person must have a fishing license in the person's possession when fishing in:
(1) waters containing state owned fish;
(2) waters of the state; or
(3) boundary waters of the state.
(c) Every person must have a valid trout-salmon stamp in the person's possession to legally fish for or take trout or salmon in:
(1) waters containing state owned fish;
(2) waters of the state; or
(3) boundary waters of the state.

It says that you need a license when you are "fishing in waters". If your pole is not "in the water" then I don't see how you could need a license.

Also, you said your BIL is autistic. If he has officially been diagnosed as such then you may have a defense under subsection 8(a)(7):

(7) A person whose only participation in fishing is to assist an
individual described in subdivision (3), (4), (5), or (6).

Subsection 8(a)(6) directs you to the following IC definition for "developmentally disabled":

IC 12-7-2-61
Developmental disability
Sec. 61. "Developmental disability" means the following:
(1) Except as provided in subdivision (2), before July 1, 1993, the term means a disability of an individual that:
(A) is attributable to:
(i) mental retardation, cerebral palsy, epilepsy, or autism;
(ii) any other condition found to be closely related to mental retardation, because this condition results in similar impairment of general intellectual functioning or adaptive behavior or requires similar treatment and services; or
(iii) dyslexia resulting from a disability described in this subdivision;
(B) originates before the person is eighteen (18) years of age;
(C) has continued or is expected to continue indefinitely; and
(D) constitutes a substantial disability to the individual's ability to function normally in society.
(2) For purposes of IC 12-10-7 and IC 12-28-1 before July 1, 1993, and for purposes of IC 12 after June 30, 1993, the term means a severe, chronic disability of an individual that:
(A) is attributable to a mental or physical impairment, or a combination of mental and physical impairments (other than a sole diagnosis of mental illness);
(B) is manifested before the individual is twenty-two (22) years of age;
(C) is likely to continue indefinitely;
(D) reflects the individual's need for a combination and
sequence of special, interdisciplinary, or generic care, treatment, or other services that are of lifelong or extended duration and are individually planned and coordinated; and
(E) results in substantial limitations in at least three (3) of the following:
(i) Self-care.
(ii) Receptive and expressive language.
(iii) Learning.
(iv) Mobility.
(v) Self-direction.
(vi) Capacity for independent living.
(vii) Economic self-sufficiency.
As added by P.L.2-1992, SEC.1. Amended by P.L.23-1993, SEC.37.

I obviously don't know if any of those definitions pertain to your BIL but it might be worth bringing it up if all else fails.

I agree completely with you, though - just holding a pole on the waters edge is not fishing without the line being in the water.

Good luck.

 

[Zoub]

Since fishing is beyond some here, there are also many and a varous laws all over the Country regarding what you can and can not possess AKA have in your control while hunting. Be it weapons, calibers or quantites of flesh.

Much of what goes on in enforcement of Fish and Game laws is based on possession.

Example, 2 people in one canoe, 5 rods and reels in that canoe. Which rods are mine, which are the other persons? They may all be mine. Non-issue, until person number 2 picks one up and does more than just move it inside the canoe.

You were watched before you were ticketed, your actions were similar to that of a person fishing and lots of people break the law you were ticketed for breaking. Stress what Jack said, fishing not catching.

You are going down and I think you may even end up having to do community service if they ever see this thread!

I have $5 says CB will have to pay this. Who wants this action? Is it illegal to gamble across State lines inside a thread like this?

 

[Zoub]

It says that you need a license when you are "fishing in waters". If your pole is not "in the water" then I don't see how you could need a license.

Well then how would you define bank fishing?

FYI in larger cities like Indy, the local LEO also give out tickets for illegal fishing without a license from the banks of the White River and Fall Creek or anyother body of water. No one is in the water. You, fishing gear, near water, guilty. No fish needed. Intent to fish is enough.

If you carry an AR instead of a rod and reel, that may confuse them. But you better have a hunting license on you if you shoot a fish.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Well then how would you define bank fishing?

It's rather simple in my opinion (and likely others here as well). You're not fishing until your gear enters the waters of the state (you cast the lure into the water). Obviously you can't catch fish until that happens, and because the statutes are intended to protect the fish from being caught then clearly no law was broken unless the fishing gear was actually placed into the water. In this case it wasn't, the fishing gear was in my hands, being held, and not once did it enter the water while in my possession.