Group of 4 become first women to complete Marine Corps infantry combat training

[jamil]

You're making a lot of assumptions about those 100 women. We have no idea "how" these women were chosen. Given the strong opposition that civilians have to women in combat, it's realistic to believe that in the military, itself, it's much higher. These women could have possibly wanted to avoid the grief often thrust upon trailblazers (see Tuskeegee Airmen). Or perhaps these women simply did not want a combat role. 90%+ of military jobs are non-combat roles, so even if you do use the erroneous figure of "100," the numbers have more parity than opponents would want to give credit, with a 6/7% margin of error.
It's EPIC fail to imply that the 85 women who didnt participate, didnt because they couldn't do it.

You're speculating too much. The only assumptions I'm making about those 100 women is that they were chosen to participate. If they chose the women as a statistical test, I imagine they based it on the necessary sample parameters to get the answer they're looking for. But in any case taking 15 as the denominator only compares what they want to do and think they can do vs what they can actually do. That's meaningful in some contexts. But if its some kind of test to learn something about combat likelihood for women in the marines, probably 100 is the more telling denominator.

And I'm not saying that only 4% of female marines can pass the test. The best we could say is that 15% of those eligible tried; 4% passed. There's nothing wrong with 1775usmarine's math.

 

[Phil502]

Would anybody be willing to let an all woman unit out there and see how they hold up? That would be the real proof that they can cut it without exhibiting what we know as affirmative action.

 

[SeaCaptain49]

Anyone who seriously thinks these women "passed" the requirements with the exact same standards as their male counterparts is willfully ignorant of military policy.

 

[Jludo]

Anyone who seriously thinks these women "passed" the requirements with the exact same standards as their male counterparts is willfully ignorant of military policy.

Please enlighten us then, do marines have different standards for women?

 

[flatlander]

Still don't want them serving in the Infantry. You can pass a "test" but still hinder the mission. There will be other "issues" that won't come to light until they get out in the fleet. I guarantee.
But, what the hell do I know.....I only spent over 21 years as a Grunt

Bob

 

[flatlander]

Please enlighten us then, do marines have different standards for women?

All services have different standards for male/ female P.T. tests. Spent time in U.S.M.C. and U.S.A.

Bob

 

[1775usmarine]

26.6%, of women that attempted the course, passed (if using the original figure of 4). To use the "100" figure, when 85 declined to participate is intellectually dishonest. I know word problems can sometimes be difficult, but that one was middle school-ish.

They opened it for 100 women to sign up. Hence the 4% it doesn't matter only 15% signed up only 4% passed.

 

[BrinNutz]

So this means that women will have to sign up for the Selective Service now, right?

 

[flatlander]

So this means that women will have to sign up for the Selective Service now, right?

You forgot the purple!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

 

[SeaCaptain49]

Please enlighten us then, do marines have different standards for women?

Ignorance isn't a virtue. Take the initiative and educate yourself.

 

[GI JOE]

I bet they make a mean sandwich or freggin gourmet with mre's

 

[Jludo]

Ignorance isn't a virtue. Take the initiative and educate yourself.

Here I thought thats what I was doing asking the question.

 

[MiNDRiVE]

I say let them serve! They are American's just like us (hopefully) and they have a right to defend our country just like the men do. Here's a good example of a woman in a combat role. Lyudmila Pavlichenko WWII 309 confirmed.

 

[SeaCaptain49]

Here I thought thats what I was doing asking the question.

What I've discovered about people is that unless they take the initiative to educate themselves, they can't be educated.

I can spend all day telling you that every military branch (and probably 99% of police departments) have different standards for women than men, but as long as you want to believe otherwise, I'm wasting my time. And no amount of "proof" is going convince you.

The only way you'll be educated on this issue is if you take the initiative and do the research yourself. Something as easy as PT standards for the military can be found with a quick google search. If you want to delve deeper into the issue, you can speak to your local recruiting office about policies and standards.

 

[jamil]

The articles referenced state that for these women, the standards were the same as the men's standards. Real pullups, etc.

 

[SeaCaptain49]

The articles referenced state that for these women, the standards were the same as the men's standards. Real pullups, etc.

Nope. The article says that the women completed the same exercises as men, which is a correct statement.

What they didn't say is they were held to the same STANDARDS as men, which they aren't.

Sure, the women completed the same 12.5 march, or did the same pullups etc. What they aren't telling you is, the women had much more time to complete the march than the men did, or that they had to do less pullups.

Again, anyone who thinks women in the military are held to the same STANDARDS as men is being willfully ignorant.

 

[jamil]

Nope. The article says that the women completed the same exercises as men, which is a correct statement.

What they didn't say is they were held to the same STANDARDS as men, which they aren't.

Sure, the women completed the same 12.5 march, or did the same pullups etc. What they aren't telling you is, the women had much more time to complete the march than the men did, or that they had to do less pullups.

Again, anyone who thinks women in the military are held to the same STANDARDS as men is being willfully ignorant.

So you're saying that we're willfully ignorant because we don't research this on our own. Is this willfully ignored information on the exact standards these women had to pass available to the public on the internet? Or do I need to file a FOIA claim to get it?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass here. I suspect that they may have fudged some stuff. But I don't know to what exact standards these particular women were actually held. I'm not going to declare that they fudged it unless I have credible evidence in hand. Credible evidence would be real witnesses, video, audio, or some written documentation from someone who is in a position to know, that states that as fact. Do you know where I can find that kind of evidence?

 

[Sgtusmc]

PT standards don't mean ****. I'm not saying don't allow women in combat units. I say give them what they want. The fact of the matter though is this. Will a woman Marine be able to evacuate a wounded male Marine who is 200+ lbs from a hot zone without adding herself to the collateral damage. Now 2 Marines have to be evac'd. So then what? Send in a male Marine who's capable of carrying the weight? Or send in another female Marine since her PT scores have shown their equality? Marines trust each other with their lives and trust can't be just theoretically employed, it is empirical.

I'm sure every Marine on this forum had 1 or two guys in their unit they called ****-birds because they were the guys that couldn't hack it or hump their weight or couldn't properly clean a weapon and on and on. We don't need more problem childs being integrated into combat units where lives are truly at stake just for political or social agendas. Not to mention raging hormones and emotions getting drawn into the mix where jobs just need to be done, period.

I think they should create, as a start, woman infantry units that train just as hard as the men and given infantry duties just like the male Marines. Create training environments where they are put up against the male infantry units as the OPFOR to learn as a unit where they shine and along with their failings. Harden the unit over time, build and reinforce the unit with candidates that can hang with the best of them. If they are then found to be competent in their duties, send the unit into combat. Give them a taste of the equality they're seeking.

 

[singlesix]

From what I get is that they opened it to 100 women but only 15 signed up and out of those 15 only 4 passed. I still believe women should not be in a combat unit. I was Motor T and we had women in our unit we had combat missions provided our own security and seen our fair share of combat. We had one woman in the middle of of our convoy getting shot at duck in the turret and not return fire. She was replaced once we got to our destination. We had another who slept through an IED attack and small arms fire and still receive a CAR for it. Sex ran rampant in the unit and the other unit who had females of which we were attached too. I did not participate as I wasn't wanting a disease or worse. Only a few from the above article are cut out to make it through the training yet 4% is still a low number if they had a 100 person pilot.

So what? We had to drag a guy hiding in the bathroom (he wrapped himself around the toilet ..yuuuccck) to get him on the plane. Does this one very limited sample mean all males are chicken? You cite two example of females' unacceptable behavior as representative of all females? Bull! I had no issues with my female soldiers' performance of their duties.

 

[singlesix]

Would I get an infraction if I posted pics of Girls of the IDF?