Gun Owners Least Likely Criminals

[Shadow Goose]

I know this is going to be earth shattering news to almost everyone here.

But seriously, it is nice to have something confirm what we already know.

Gun Owners Least Likely Criminals, Report Finds

 

[bobzilla]

Loved this out of hte comments section:

"This report is meaningless. Facts only confuse liberals, then they call you a racist, knuckle-dragging, pickup driving, hillbilly bitterly "cling to your guns and religion." No learning can occur within the liberal mind, as they believe they already know everything."

 

[pudly]

Hate to say it, but that article title is misleading. John Lott's material that they link to is better.

Permit holders are the least likely criminals and is what they are referring to.
Criminals/thugs who own guns are by definition, the most likely to commit criminal acts.

Presumably, unlicensed gun owners who are following state law, are somewhere in between, but closer to permit holders due to the lack of "blood in the streets" in Constitutional Carry states.

 

[foszoe]

Based solely on your first statement. This could be also taken to mean that fingerprinting, background checks, and licensing/permitting by a government authority reduces crime. If I was in favor of such things, I could spin this to fit my narrative.

Hate to say it, but that article title is misleading. John Lott's material that they link to is better.

Permit holders are the least likely criminals and is what they are referring to.
Criminals/thugs who own guns are by definition, the most likely to commit criminal acts.

Presumably, unlicensed gun owners who are following state law, are somewhere in between, but closer to permit holders due to the lack of "blood in the streets" in Constitutional Carry states.

 

[pudly]

Based solely on your first statement. This could be also taken to mean that fingerprinting, background checks, and licensing/permitting by a government authority reduces crime. If I was in favor of such things, I could spin this to fit my narrative.

I stand 100% behind my first statement because it is factually correct and has John Lott's data to back it up.

Government licenses/permits obviously do a pretty good job identifying law-abiding citizens who are unlikely to commit crimes, as the statistics presented demonstrate. That doesn't mean they are right, only that they are a real filter.

The problem is that anti-gunners see the criminals/thugs category as being representative of gun owners. That forms much of their world view and when they read this kind of article, they take it as putting spin on the situation. (You evil NRA folks are trying to distract from the problem).

Even John Lott doesn't go into the unlicensed gun owner category, but his title is more carefully worded so as not to be misleading. The part on unlicensed gun owners is my own speculation.

 

[cosermann]

IF the elimination of GFZs is a political non-starter, then we should use stats like this to push for the ADDITION of concealed carry license holders to the list of exceptions (like police officers).

If the police can carry such places, why not a MORE law-abiding group?

We have to start using such data to DO something and ADVOCATE for positive change to existing gun laws.

Make concealed carry license holders exceptions to NFA, etc. I could go on.

 

[foszoe]

I was assuming your first statement accurately represented the article and that was what I was trying to imply.

That said, how many permit holders as referenced in your first statement get them without going through a government entity? Fingerprinting? Background Checks? I am fairly certain permits are issued by a government entity so that is about 100%, Fingerprinting and Background checks were part of getting my IN, UT, and FL permits so i am assuming but i think the % are in my favor that most states fingerprint and background check before issuing a permit. My only other assertion is that the information is retained by the Govt, which in IN is a fact because it shows up on traffic stops if inquired about.

So again, if I am supporting mandatory background checks and permits for gunowners, I believe this study could be misconstrued to support this position.

I stand 100% behind my first statement. It said nothing about fingerprinting, etc.

Government licenses/permits obviously do a pretty good job identifying law-abiding citizens who are unlikely to commit crimes, as the statistics presented demonstrate. That doesn't mean they are right, only that they are an effective filter.

The problem is that anti-gunners see the criminals/thugs category as being representative of gun owners. That forms much of their world view and when they read this kind of article, they take it as putting spin on the situation. Even John Lott doesn't go into the unlicensed gun owner category, but he does not omit that point so as not to be misleading. The part on unlicensed gun owners is my own speculation.

 

[pudly]

IF the elimination of GFZs is a political non-starter, then we should use stats like this to push for the ADDITION of concealed carry license holders to the list of exceptions (like police officers).

If the police can carry such places, why not a MORE law-abiding group?

We have to start using such data to DO something and ADVOCATE for positive change to existing gun laws.

Make concealed carry license holders exceptions to NFA, etc. I could go on.

Well stated and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[pudly]

So again, if I am supporting mandatory background checks and permits for gunowners, I believe this study could be misconstrued to support this position.

Correct. It doesn't address unlicensed, but legal gun owners (or even the criminals/thugs really). It makes a single point. Permitted gun owners are very law abiding. Anything else read into it does not come from the source that is being quoted.

 

[Alamo]

I know this is going to be earth shattering news to almost everyone here.

But seriously, it is nice to have something confirm what we already know.

Gun Owners Least Likely Criminals, Report Finds

The link notes:

The study refers to Texas and Florida, which it says mirror most other states, to compare permit holders with police and the overall population. It used data from 1987 through 2015.

Last year during a committee hearing on either the Open Carry or Campus Carry bill (forget which right now), one of the Mom-who-need-a-clue propagandists was testifying against the bill. One of the claims she made was that data on all the vicious crimes that (then) Concealed Handgun License holders commit is 'unavailable', 'kept under wraps', etc.

A lot of us think she should have been officially called out for lying to committee (testimony is under oath IIRC), altho the committee probably correctly and realistically thought there time was better spent on other things. There is no way you can spend any time doing any serious politicking about gun laws, especially the CHL/LTC law, in Texas without quickly finding out that conviction rates for CHL/LTC holders are published by the Texas Department of Public Safety (and posted on their website), and has been yearly since the inception of the concealed carry law in 1995. I'm sure the anti-CHL'ers at the time wanted this to show how evil CHL'ers would prove to be, and of course it has blown up in their faces. No doubt Dr. Lott used this data also in his paper, but I don't know where he got his data on police officers.

The most recent data shows that Texans with Licenses to Carry are 22 times less likely to be convicted of any crime than the corresponding population (adults 21 and above) in Texas. This is one of the better rates over time, but there has never been a year where the conviction rates for CHL holders were not far far below the general populace. The Legislature is made well aware of this, and I am sure every member of that committee knew she was spouting nonsense the moment it came out of her mouth (along with all the other trash).

Conviction rates for peace officers, however, are not easily available in one published location. Every few years one of main long-term 2A activists submits some open records requests to obtain this data and compile in a comparable form and made available to the Legislature. Conviction rates for peace officers are also far below the general public -- but not as a low as CHL/LTC holders.

I'm pretty sure he is going to do another comparison soon, because in 2017 there will be a bill introduced to essentially remove nearly all the current restrictions on where a license holder may carry. (There was a bill to do this last Leg as well, but it got swamped by all the attention to Open Carry -- which is too bad, it would have been much more useful than OC).