Guns and depression. Family/Friends responseibility.

[DocGlock86]

Sorry for the length just a lot of information I thought was important.

First I’d like to give a little back family history just which will help with the context of my situation that I have run into. My ex-wife and I have begun to rebuild our relationship in hopes of eventually getting back together. I am and have always been extremely close to her family. We were extremely young and dumb when we got married and had our son. Her parents helped us as best as they could while we dealt with the shock of adulthood. Her dad and I have a very odd relationship. We both are very private people and don’t say a whole lot. However even though we don’t hold a lot of deep conversations with each other, I know that if I ever needed something he would be there and vice versa.

Now for my dilemma… my ex-wife’s entire family is not gun owners. I don’t think it’s really a fact they are anti-gun but more of they never considered it. So here recently I’ve been hyping my ex’s dad up to buy a gun. I eventually talked him into it and he applied for his LTCH and ordered a gun online which is to be shipped to one of the local guns shops.

Well today the ex and I were talking and she dropped some very disturbing news on me. It appears that her dad has been dealing with severe depression the last couple months. He has been seeing a counselor and has been subscribed some anti depression medication. From what she told me the last week or so he has stopped taking his medication and last night made the comment (which he says was just giving his wife a hard time) that he was going to overdose on sleeping pills.

Right off the bat I begin to worry about him possessing a firearm and let my ex know of my concern. She says she agrees and has talked to her mom about it. Her mom pretty much said that she doesn’t believe that he would do anything that drastic. (In my opinion not really taking it too seriously). So I called her up and spoke with her. Pretty much got the same response even though she said she did talk to him and of course he says he is absolutely fine.

My personal beliefs are anyone who is truly struggling with depression to the point of considering suicide shouldn’t really have direct access to a firearm. Even though I wouldn’t be directly responsible for it I would have a hard time getting over the fact that if he did use his gun for suicide I was the one who talked a firearm into his home.

I’m not sure what I should do…..

 

[Hiserman79]

Tough situation, I can't offer much more than a prayer. Once the gun is in his home, I would suggest his wife take control of it until he is in a better place.

 

[CSK22]

Currently in a similar situation, would love to read some input from those who have gone through this as well.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I'm not sure what to offer, but you paint a dangerous picture. I agree with you in that if he used the gun I talked him into buying to commit suicide, I'd feel horrible. This is a tough predicament--prayers to you for some guidance.

 

[roisigns]

Ask to buy it from him or borrow it long term.

 

[TopGun9]

Depressed

Talk to him about it and see if you can hold the gun for him until he feels better.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Talk to him yourself. If he decides he is done it will not matter if he has a gun or not.

 

[TheFireArmorer]

Trying as best as I can to put myself in your shoes, this would be my suggestion:

Though you state you two rarely hold any type of deep conversation, this might be the time to attempt one with him. I know approaching him about his depression and the comment he made regarding suicide would definitely be an awkward situation. But, if you can get him to open up and get to the bottom of what is going on, I guarantee it will take some weight off your shoulders.

Also, you may be able to determine whether or not he is seriously at risk of harming himself, though that is more of doctor's decision. I would just think it best for your conscious to make him aware of your concern on a personal level.

I wouldn't think anyone would blame you if something were to happen. I also understand your dilemma. I've seen the effects of depression in my own family, and it is a confusing and concerning problem. If you, in the end, feel that he absolutely should not have access to a firearm for fear that he may harm himself, you may want to have his family consult an in-patient psychiatry program or something of that nature, because he doesn't need a gun to do something drastic.

Anyone with depression, no matter how severe, needs help and the love and support of their family. I wish you the best and hope that you find a way to solve this problem.

 

[jwh20]

As you know from the endless advertisements, anti-depressants often have the side effect of "suicidal thoughts or actions." This is, obviously incredibly dangerous and anyone who is suffering from depression (bad enough) or taking anti-depressants should have NO ACCESS to firearms or anything else that they might use to harm themselves.

I agree with the suggestion to take any firearms out of the house, or at least lock them up and don't give the person access to the key or combination.

As I understand these meds, over time and as they adjust the dosage, the danger of suicide greatly decreases. So it may be possible to give them back.

I'd really suggestion discussing this with the person's physician. But better safe than sorry.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

If he is a Vet of any service there is a hot-line he should know.

800 273 8255. Help is there, whether the Vet himself calls, of a family friend. I am a M/D O/C PTSD survivor & 'Nam vet who has safely worked with, bought, sold, shot, built guns ever since I got out in 1968. NEVER any incidents, despite what some MODS here think that they may have detected (BTW, thanks for the advice and assistance, Mods ... you know who you are), but I am a preacher for gun safety and gun rights. And some men and some mentalities cannot handle weapons ... not just guns. [added: In 40 years I have never know any Vet to "just snap!" There are ALWAYS signs and special words to look for and listen for. Not to do that here, but YOU call that hot-line and ask for yourself. You'll be to blame for his possible actions if you don't.] We are in this together, guys, especially we Veteran gun owners, whom we know have been all classified as psychotic dangers to BigBrother society, et al, Treat the drug-dependent as you would be treated yourself, if you were so unlucky as to experience any TRAUMATIC exposure, especially in the Human De-Valuing theater of war in all its contexts. I'm just sayin' ... judge not, lest ye be judged. ('Nam, Eye-Core, 1966~1968. ) 12-ways out.

Currently in a similar situation, would love to read some input from those who have gone through this as well.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Suicide Prevention: How to Help Someone who is Suicidal

 

[EvilBlackGun]

If a man is deprived of his right to K&BA, he becomes a slave ...

... and you can expect him to behave like a deprived slave. REMOVE the weapon(s) subtly but don't provoke him. Don't give him a reason to distrust you if you EVER want his trust again. Voice of experience here. Pushing him overtly is pushing him towards a tipping-point. He doesn't need distrust, he needs understanding. IT IS NOT HIS FAULT. Be wise, be wary, but don't go all creepy and "CIA" on him. Start w his medical doc., and work up to a shrink. Be careful; I'm O.K. and you're O.K., but I still can't watch any war-movies.

As you know from the endless advertisements, anti-depressants often have the side effect of "suicidal thoughts or actions."

I agree with the suggestion to take any firearms out of the house, or at least lock them up
As I understand these meds, over time and as they adjust the dosage, the danger of suicide greatly decreases. So it may be possible to give them back.

I'd really suggestion discussing this with the person's physician. But better safe than sorry.

 

[JimmyR]

Well, I guess this is my forte. I am a mental health professional working in a psychiatric hospital intake office.

First, I'd say that my first concern is his ability to complete 4473, since he was being treated for mental illness. This should disqualify him from owning/carrying a weapon.

Second, if he takes possession of the gun, I think an honest, open conversation would be necessary, and involving a mental health professional would be best. From my minimal understanding of the situation, I would not be comfortable with him having a gun, unless he it's being treated for his depression. It will not be easy, and I'm not sure you have any legal recourse. I wish you luck. PM me his home city, and I can try to give you some referrals for crisis analysis in his area.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Absolutely true, Bunny-

The more a family member or friend can talk to him the better. Be prepared to relay ALL the info you get to a Professional, before asking any outsider to come see him, or taking him to one. He doesn't need to be jerked around if he is already fragile. You might want to record him for the Pros. if he gets all into deep stuff or goes all rambling so you can't understand; SOMETHING is putting him in this mood, and something else can bring him back from this mood. You be a catalyst for his healing. You'll feel good, too. You'll not feel so much grief if he does bail on us, since you tried so well.

Talk to him yourself. If he decides he is done it will not matter if he has a gun or not.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The more a family member or friend can talk to him the better. Be prepared to relay ALL the info you get to a Professional, before asking any outsider to come see him, or taking him to one. He doesn't need to be jerked around if he is already fragile. You might want to record him for the Pros. if he gets all into deep stuff or goes all rambling so you can't understand; SOMETHING is putting him in this mood, and something else can bring him back from this mood. You be a catalyst for his healing. You'll feel good, too. You'll not feel so much grief if he does bail on us, since you tried so well.

These days, just like the vets are dealing with with the VA, who can we trust to ehlp us and protect our rights though? Just something to think about

 

[BKExpress]

I feel for your situation. This issue will hit a lot of families at some point in time. I think it's best to ensure that someone in the family is talking to him regularly about his current mental state. If people are paying attention, you should be okay. Just my thoughts. Sorry you're going through this and good luck.

 

[nra4ever]

You yourself already answered your question in your last paragraph.

The gun has got to go. Depressed people are sick and will do things they normally would not do.

Is it you're fault? Certainly it is not. Will they blame you? Oh hell yes they will.

I liked what someone already suggested. Ask to borrow it and don't return it until he is better.

Good luck.

 

[Valvestate]

SOMETHING is putting him in this mood, and something else can bring him back from this mood. You be a catalyst for his healing.

I have to agree wholeheartedly. Some people deal with things by pushing it to the back of their minds and forget about it. It still affects them, though. Being depressed seems to be often about not having something that one wants or needs, or something is not going in the direction that one wants or needs. You can try some simple open-ended questions when you catch them at a low when it's active like "What's missing?" or "What do you want in life?". Do it without anyone around. You'll probably get the truth.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Agreed, "These days" ...

DON'T EVER lay your rights and gripes in the hands of any Social Worker! Øbummer was a Social Worker !!! ! ! ! Stick with Med Drs, Shrinks and Physicians. They make diagnoses, whereas So.Wo. just write out OPINIONS! And never in the Vets' favor. And if you are the patient, demand immediately to see your Drs exit-notes immediately after seeing the Dr. Make a Xerox if you must, and DON"T wait for FOIA to kick in for you. If the Dr won't give you those notes don't go back again. It's your absolute right to know what they say about you. "We were just following D.H.S. Directives to follow up on your PTSD symptoms" would have been a likely scenario! It took me over a month to find out that the SoWo suggested that my daughter apply for MY Guardianship, and my guns. She got neither! And you do not have to visit any Dr all by yourself; take a knowledgable (about you) friend along to ask questions and fend off prying questions. The Dr has a Nurse, and you have your friend. Voice of experience.

These days, just like the vets are dealing with with the VA, who can we trust to ehlp us and protect our rights though? Just something to think about

 

[BHOWPE]

Get a trigger lock for FIL's gun immediately and give the key to mother-in-law. This will be less confrontational, but still effective. Obviously the optimal case is that FIL has no access to a gun. Depression can be the deepest, darkest hole where people make terrible, unconscionable, irrational decisions that often hurt themselves, and the ones they love, because they think they have no other choice. Do not let this situation go unresolved.