Guns in vehicles while at work

[grimor]

think of it like this, your real property (land) has air space above it. Much like a nation. Now if another nation decides to fly it's fighters into your nations air space, it doesn't matter who's property the fighters are, they're still in your air space. Just like if you bring your car onto my property, that doesn't create a little bubble or your air space around your car...

 

[snowman46919]

think of it like this, your real property (land) has air space above it. Much like a nation. Now if another nation decides to fly it's fighters into your nations air space, it doesn't matter who's property the fighters are, they're still in your air space. Just like if you bring your car onto my property, that doesn't create a little bubble or your air space around your car...

What about on my person? I am not being antagonistic just wondering where the line in the sand lies. Does that give you the right to go through my personal property just because I parked my vehicle on your property? I don't believe any of you here would like it if I went rifling through your vehicle just because you parked it on my property.

 

[finity]

think of it like this, your real property (land) has air space above it. Much like a nation. Now if another nation decides to fly it's fighters into your nations air space, it doesn't matter who's property the fighters are, they're still in your air space. Just like if you bring your car onto my property, that doesn't create a little bubble or your air space around your car...

So if I fly OVER your property you have total say in what I can do or have in my vehicle (plane) while there?

Private planes fly over millions of other peoples property every day.

That theory could be VERY difficult, nigh impossible, to regulate.

An employer can't tell you that you can't have a bible (or any other religious text) in your car on his property. He can't tell you what radio stations you have to listen to in your car while on his property. He can't tell you that you can't have any politically related material in your vehicle while on his property.

As long as those materials stay in your vhicle & don't interfere with the employers business then most people have no problem with the laws that protect the 1A Rights of the employee WHILE IN HIS VEHICLE.

Why should the 2A rights of the employee be any different?

Like I said, it's a COMPROMISE. I think it's a fair one.

 

[dross]

What about on my person? I am not being antagonistic just wondering where the line in the sand lies. Does that give you the right to go through my personal property just because I parked my vehicle on your property? I don't believe any of you here would like it if I went rifling through your vehicle just because you parked it on my property.

I have no right to search your person or your vehicle. But let's say that before you come on my property, I say to you, "You can't come on my property unless you consent to being searched."

You may consent to a search or refuse a search. What you can't do is stay on my property if you don't consent.

Why is this so hard?

 

[dross]

An employer can't tell you that you can't have a bible (or any other religious text) in your car on his property. He can't tell you what radio stations you have to listen to in your car while on his property. He can't tell you that you can't have any politically related material in your vehicle while on his property.

As long as those materials stay in your vhicle & don't interfere with the employers business then most people have no problem with the laws that protect the 1A Rights of the employee WHILE IN HIS VEHICLE.

Why should the 2A rights of the employee be any different?

Like I said, it's a COMPROMISE. I think it's a fair one.

Just to clarify, even though I think you and I know where we stand respectively on this, I DO think an employer has the right to refuse to let someone with a bible on his property.

I just don't think anyone has a right to be on someone else's property, and the property owner should be able to make any stupid and arbitrary rules he wants.

 

[nascar6829]

Speaking of what can and can't be on company property. Here's another dumb one. If you have a rebel flag bumper sticker you will be written up and asked to either remove the decal or not bring the vehicle back on the property. Now I realize that some people are offended by the rebel flag but it is legal to own, buy, sell, trade, and manufacture so I don't see how anyone can tell someone that they cannot display legally owned material as long as it doesn't include a derogatory statement. By the way, the gay rainbow is considered ok with this company.

 

[rugertoter]

I just toss my gun on the dash of my car and wear my empty holster around all day... never had a problem...

I'm torn on this actually. It's private property and they should be able to decide what and who they want on it. Of course I like being able to have my gun in my car. I would hate for there to be a law that says I have to allow something on my property that I didn't want

I agree. It is a sticky situation depending upon which side you view it from. I guess the bottom line is that gun laws really don't do much to keep the wrong people from misusing a firearm. The problem, again, is not the gun, but the person.

 

[dross]

Speaking of what can and can't be on company property. Here's another dumb one. If you have a rebel flag bumper sticker you will be written up and asked to either remove the decal or not bring the vehicle back on the property. Now I realize that some people are offended by the rebel flag but it is legal to own, buy, sell, trade, and manufacture so I don't see how anyone can tell someone that they cannot display legally owned material as long as it doesn't include a derogatory statement. By the way, the gay rainbow is considered ok with this company.

Again, you're misstating the issue. You can have all the rebel flags you want, you can paint your car in a stars and bars theme and make your horn play Dixie.

Just don't bring that vehicle on to my property.

 

[snowman46919]

I have no right to search your person or your vehicle. But let's say that before you come on my property, I say to you, "You can't come on my property unless you consent to being searched."

You may consent to a search or refuse a search. What you can't do is stay on my property if you don't consent.

Why is this so hard?

My comment was directed at this

think of it like this, your real property (land) has air space above it. Much like a nation. Now if another nation decides to fly it's fighters into your nations air space, it doesn't matter who's property the fighters are, they're still in your air space. Just like if you bring your car onto my property, that doesn't create a little bubble or your air space around your car...

Stating that my property is no longer under my control but your's just because I parked it there, I am most certain that you wouldn't then maintain it because it is my vehicle why should you. So the supposition that could be made that it is my vehicle and the contents therein are of my responsibility and you, respectively, should keep your nose out of it unless it is doing harm to you, your property, or your rights. I am not trying to be hard headed about it just trying to understand what your laying down.

 

[dross]

Stating that my property is no longer under my control but your's just because I parked it there,

I never said this. It remains fully and totally under your control.

I am most certain that you wouldn't then maintain it because it is my vehicle why should you.

What?

So the supposition that could be made that it is my vehicle and the contents therein are of my responsibility and you, respectively, should keep your nose out of it unless it is doing harm to you, your property, or your rights.

I absolutely agree. I should keep my nose out of it unless YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO LOOK IN IT. If you don't want me in there, don't give me permission. If I ask what's in it and you don't want to tell, DON"T TELL ME.

I am not trying to be hard headed about it just trying to understand what your laying down.

You may not be TRYING, but you're getting it done.

What I'm laying down is this:

1. What is in your vehicle is your business.
2. No one has the right to search your vehicle without your permission.
3. Rules about guns in cars or stickers or any other thing like that are stupid.

I have no right to know what is in your vehicle, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BRING YOUR VEHICLE ONTO MY PROPERTY. If you want to do that, then you must follow all my silly rules. You don't want to follow my silly rules? Great, I don't blame you. I won't search your vehicle, I won't ask what's in it, I'll cease to think about you and your vehicle.

Just get it off my property. Your property (vehicle) your rules. My property (parking lot) my rules.

 

[snowman46919]

I never said this. It remains fully and totally under your control.



What?



I absolutely agree. I should keep my nose out of it unless YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO LOOK IN IT. If you don't want me in there, don't give me permission. If I ask what's in it and you don't want to tell, DON"T TELL ME.





You may not be TRYING, but you're getting it done.

What I'm laying down is this:

1. What is in your vehicle is your business.
2. No one has the right to search your vehicle without your permission.
3. Rules about guns in cars or stickers or any other thing like that are stupid.

I have no right to know what is in your vehicle, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BRING YOUR VEHICLE ONTO MY PROPERTY. If you want to do that, then you must follow all my silly rules. You don't want to follow my silly rules? Great, I don't blame you. I won't search your vehicle, I won't ask what's in it, I'll cease to think about you and your vehicle.

Just get it off my property. Your property (vehicle) your rules. My property (parking lot) my rules.

Dross I perfectly understand your point of view, it is grimors statements that are my sticking point and I think that has been misunderstood as well as I could have been more clear in making that point.

 

[Kimber]

I am a member of a local union here in Northwest IN. One of my co-workers was parked in the U S steel contractors parking lot, when he walked out to his vehicle at the end of his shift there sat security waiting for him. they asked him to open his vehicle for a search and so he did they found a 22 rifle behind the back seat, he explained that it was left there two weeks prior. He has been banned for life from the property and the company he worked for has terminated him. one week later the company he worked for sent out letters to all employees stating no one was allowed to bring any firearms to work. All this happened because of a two dollor bumber sticker that said "driver only carries twenty dollors cash for ammuntion." I believe keep your mouth shut mind your buisness do not advertise.

 

[iChokePeople]

Hmm. Which section of 1065's exceptions does US Steel fit?

 

[nascar6829]

I never said this. It remains fully and totally under your control.



What?



I absolutely agree. I should keep my nose out of it unless YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO LOOK IN IT. If you don't want me in there, don't give me permission. If I ask what's in it and you don't want to tell, DON"T TELL ME.





You may not be TRYING, but you're getting it done.

What I'm laying down is this:

1. What is in your vehicle is your business.
2. No one has the right to search your vehicle without your permission.
3. Rules about guns in cars or stickers or any other thing like that are stupid.

I have no right to know what is in your vehicle, UNLESS YOU WANT TO BRING YOUR VEHICLE ONTO MY PROPERTY. If you want to do that, then you must follow all my silly rules. You don't want to follow my silly rules? Great, I don't blame you. I won't search your vehicle, I won't ask what's in it, I'll cease to think about you and your vehicle.

Just get it off my property. Your property (vehicle) your rules. My property (parking lot) my rules.

You really like playing devils advocate don't you.
You can state the my property my rules gimmick all you want but at the end of the day the law says I can keep a gun in my car while it is parked in your lot whether you like it or not. Now the hard part is getting the companies to play by the rules.

 

[williamsjr22]

My work has rules against any kind of weapon on workplace property. This includes in your locked car in the parking lot. I agree with some of the previous posts. Deny, Deny, Deny and only allow a search if a warrant is presented.

 

[dross]

You really like playing devils advocate don't you.
You can state the my property my rules gimmick all you want but at the end of the day the law says I can keep a gun in my car while it is parked in your lot whether you like it or not. Now the hard part is getting the companies to play by the rules.

I understand what the law says. Just like the law says you have to apply for permission to the State before you can carry a weapon for self defense, and just like the law says that you can't own a rifle with a short barrel unless you apply to the federal government, and lots of other laws I disagree with.

I'm not arguing what this law does or doesn't do. I think that's established. I'm arguing with those people who are pleased to violate someone else's rights when it benefits them, rather than seeing the principle that affects us all.

 

[iChokePeople]

My work has rules against any kind of weapon on workplace property. This includes in your locked car in the parking lot. I agree with some of the previous posts. Deny, Deny, Deny and only allow a search if a warrant is presented.

IANAL, but as far as I know, the "Entry constitutes consent to search" thing has held water legally. You can remove that consent by leaving the premises/property.

 

[grimor]

Speaking of what can and can't be on company property. Here's another dumb one. If you have a rebel flag bumper sticker you will be written up and asked to either remove the decal or not bring the vehicle back on the property. Now I realize that some people are offended by the rebel flag but it is legal to own, buy, sell, trade, and manufacture so I don't see how anyone can tell someone that they cannot display legally owned material as long as it doesn't include a derogatory statement. By the way, the gay rainbow is considered ok with this company.

do you work on a military base? lol

 

[grimor]

Stating that my property is no longer under my control but your's just because I parked it there, I am most certain that you wouldn't then maintain it because it is my vehicle why should you. So the supposition that could be made that it is my vehicle and the contents therein are of my responsibility and you, respectively, should keep your nose out of it unless it is doing harm to you, your property, or your rights. I am not trying to be hard headed about it just trying to understand what your laying down.

If you can't understand it by now, there is nothing I can say that will make you understand it. It's my property, I get to choose who and what are there. If I say no people with red ties, then there are no red ties allowed, in your car, on your person, it doesn't matter. no red ties allowed on the property at all. You have the choice to keep your red tie in your car parked some place else, I can't stop you from owning one, but I should have every right to stop you from bringing a red tie on my property period.

 

[snowman46919]

If you can't understand it by now, there is nothing I can say that will make you understand it. It's my property, I get to choose who and what are there. If I say no people with red ties, then there are no red ties allowed, in your car, on your person, it doesn't matter. no red ties allowed on the property at all. You have the choice to keep your red tie in your car, I can't stop you from owning one, but I should have every right to stop you from bringing a red tie on my property period.

Including illegal search and seizure? It is your property but a locked compartment of my vehicle is very much mine. Somebody mentioned entering your property is immediate consent for search but no case law was cited. If this is true however it seems a bit asinine. That is all I am getting at nothing more nothing less, I simply do not understand the laws regarding all this. To apply this to work case scenario, by choosing to work I give up some of my rights. I shouldn't have to give up any of my rights because I choose not to take a hand out, but instead choose to work and take care of my responsibilities.

So I guess the most simple question I have is am I giving consent for search when entering any private parking lot (referring strictly to a business as that is what the law is applying to) until the new law goes in to effect? If this only applies to employees what about customers of the business? So if those two could be cleared up I am done making myself look a fool.