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Gunsmithing as an occupation
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I suppose its like most other trade-type jobs. If you're really, really good, you'll always have work. If you're good and reasonably priced you can probably make a go of it, but you'll make more money as a plumber, I'd guess. And that's all it is, a guess.
Make it a side job and see what happens.
I am no gunsmith, but fixed a lot of stuff for folks when i was with a shop for a spell (more of a customer service deal then).
Be prepared for folks bringing in crap, thinking it super sentimental, and wanting it fixed for pennies.
Amazing how even a Numrichs parts pricing will scare some of these old "means so much to me and my family" types off.
That doesn't include any labor!
Looking at Brownells suggested pricing for services and smaller jobs.................that was way more than what we charged.
Another shop not too far away charged more along the lines suggested by Brownells, and they got very little biz.
Regional and current economic situation may dictate different pricing.
The $ IMHO is in more specialized work, and that takes equipment and training.
Then there's dealing with the public. It's fun trouble shooting, helping people................working in the back room. It's another thing having to deal with them face to face
My eyesight and patience deteriorated enough I only do stuff for my friends and family.
I am no gunsmith, but fixed a lot of stuff for folks when i was with a shop for a spell (more of a customer service deal then).
Be prepared for folks bringing in crap, thinking it super sentimental, and wanting it fixed for pennies.
Amazing how even a Numrichs parts pricing will scare some of these old "means so much to me and my family" types off.
That doesn't include any labor!
Looking at Brownells suggested pricing for services and smaller jobs.................that was way more than what we charged.
Another shop not too far away charged more along the lines suggested by Brownells, and they got very little biz.
Regional and current economic situation may dictate different pricing.
The $ IMHO is in more specialized work, and that takes equipment and training.
Then there's dealing with the public. It's fun trouble shooting, helping people................working in the back room. It's another thing having to deal with them face to face
My eyesight and patience deteriorated enough I only do stuff for my friends and family.
IndyGunworks
Grandmaster
In my opinion its one of the lowest paying jobs that require a VERY HIGHLY SKILLED worker.
Cpt Caveman
Master
I did it for awhile and the money was just not there. If I hadn't been doing it out of a building I owned it wouldn't have lasted more than a couple months.
You will get crowds of people wanting their Marlin model 60 or Ruger Mk 2 or whatever firearm they decided to take apart on the kitchen table put back together( they will bring them in in bags, no really, they will) Then when you tell em its gonna be $40 to do it they'll howl at ya about how thats highway robbery. Usually there will be a part missing you'll have to order and they'll accuse you of losing it.
You'll end up with a pile of cheap guns you will have to sell to get your money.
Its weird how folks are willing to pay for experts to fix their cars and furnaces and such but many don't think the same thing applies to firearms.
You will get crowds of people wanting their Marlin model 60 or Ruger Mk 2 or whatever firearm they decided to take apart on the kitchen table put back together( they will bring them in in bags, no really, they will) Then when you tell em its gonna be $40 to do it they'll howl at ya about how thats highway robbery. Usually there will be a part missing you'll have to order and they'll accuse you of losing it.
You'll end up with a pile of cheap guns you will have to sell to get your money.
Its weird how folks are willing to pay for experts to fix their cars and furnaces and such but many don't think the same thing applies to firearms.
My idea of a gunsmith is quickly disappearing. I remember the first Mauser rifle I had built by George Perkins, I dropped off on a Tuesday and he asked if I could pick it up Friday. I laughed and told him I knew better than that, to which he replied that many people don't. He had it back to me in 3-4 months, which after seeing his little tub of cards that he used to track his jobs was amazing. I think he may have moved some forward depending on how little you bugged him.
The two gunsmiths I have dealt with most, Harry McGowen and George Perkins spent more time sitting and talking with you than working. With both George and Harry the opportunity to sit and talk guns with them was as valuable to me as the finished product. When they were starting they actually knew the people building the parts they used personally.
The two gunsmiths I have dealt with most, Harry McGowen and George Perkins spent more time sitting and talking with you than working. With both George and Harry the opportunity to sit and talk guns with them was as valuable to me as the finished product. When they were starting they actually knew the people building the parts they used personally.
I can tell you first hand that it's hard to make a living as a gunsmith. You would almost have to go in under a large shop with lots of customer traffic in order to make ends meet. You will still get the guns that aren't worth fixing, guns that there are parts unavailable, and guns that you just don't want to mess with. I have my own shop and developed my own customer base. I've been in business almost four years now, and have just started to see the fruits of my labor. My only recommendation is to not over extend yourself. Go into it with obtainable goals; for example "In 2014 I want to have 2 customers a ________(day, week, month)." You can make your business as big or small as you want. Just remember, don't spend all your time making a "life" you can't enjoy. There is always something to be said about being your own boss...but be sure you give yourself a vacation to go fishing or hunting every now and again.
My shop is 30' from my house. I have a wife and three kids. I have had, on more than one occasion, people offer to put me up in a commercial building and/or buy into my business. It's just not worth it to me. Why? Because my shop is 30' from my house and I have a wife and three kids.
Good luck to you in your ventures.
My shop is 30' from my house. I have a wife and three kids. I have had, on more than one occasion, people offer to put me up in a commercial building and/or buy into my business. It's just not worth it to me. Why? Because my shop is 30' from my house and I have a wife and three kids.
Good luck to you in your ventures.
philbert001
Expert
THIS!
ESPECIALLY if he is your go-to guy for EVERYTHING! Not just a guy who is good with 1 or 2 genres of firearms!
VERY HIGHLY SKILLED
Some folks have the knack, others don't. And............I have seen some rather heavy handed folks with a gunsmithing shingle outside.
I used to have very very good eyesight and worked under microscopes, had a super light touch..........shaving an aluminum wirebond free hand off an active region IC to a.001" or so, for a rebond (development test units only)......that was a common job done with 90%+ success......even after working 16 hrs and having a 2 liter of Mountain Dew in me at 2 AM. Day after day too.
Not saying one needs that level of finesse, but it sure doesn't hurt. So the skills IMHO may be learned, or maybe not. Again, some folks have it (and might be born with it).
Then there's the tie in of trouble shooting. You gotta be bartender kinda sorta, not step on toes, try to get info............since the customer usually is off target with the identification of the problem. Hell sometimes they flat out lie about it (usually because they took it apart).
Remember, every guy knows all there is about trucks, women and guns. The more vocal types will probably come in as customers.
While working on various guns I've had some folks come back to "help"..............these shooting associates of some skilled background (machinists, model makers, tool and die guys etc). Damn near most want to take off metal...............never fully identifying the problem first. Pretty scary.
Highly skilled? You bet they are.................but that doesn't mean they can fully or even correctly apply what they know to the task at hand.
Some folks have the knack, others don't. And............I have seen some rather heavy handed folks with a gunsmithing shingle outside.
I used to have very very good eyesight and worked under microscopes, had a super light touch..........shaving an aluminum wirebond free hand off an active region IC to a.001" or so, for a rebond (development test units only)......that was a common job done with 90%+ success......even after working 16 hrs and having a 2 liter of Mountain Dew in me at 2 AM. Day after day too.
Not saying one needs that level of finesse, but it sure doesn't hurt. So the skills IMHO may be learned, or maybe not. Again, some folks have it (and might be born with it).
Then there's the tie in of trouble shooting. You gotta be bartender kinda sorta, not step on toes, try to get info............since the customer usually is off target with the identification of the problem. Hell sometimes they flat out lie about it (usually because they took it apart).
Remember, every guy knows all there is about trucks, women and guns. The more vocal types will probably come in as customers.
While working on various guns I've had some folks come back to "help"..............these shooting associates of some skilled background (machinists, model makers, tool and die guys etc). Damn near most want to take off metal...............never fully identifying the problem first. Pretty scary.
Highly skilled? You bet they are.................but that doesn't mean they can fully or even correctly apply what they know to the task at hand.
Gunsmithing 101~
1. Any amount of work you do is considered a "full action job" if the shooter decides to sell the gun.
2. Once you work on a gun, you own the thing for life. Anything that goes wrong with it in the future, including wear out, will be on your head and have to be replaced for free.
3. The only screw or spring that gets lost is the only one that you don't have a spare for.
4. A gun that should be melted into scrap is your worst enemy! You will spend countless unpaid hours getting it back into shooting condition, only to have the customer complain about a slight amount of trigger creep.
5. The amount of time a customer spends with you is inversely proportional to the money they will pay to have work done.
6. The only time a screwdriver will slip and ruin the finish is when the customer is looking over your shoulder.
7. The tap will always catch at the wrong angle.
8. Your wife will find unique applications for your best checkering file.
9. Before allowing a customer to hand you his gun, ask him if he owns a Dremel tool. See 2. above.
10. If the customer asks you whether you have something in stock, he rarely wants it if your answer is "Yes".
11. If a customer states that he is a retired tool and die maker, kindly ask him to leave the premises.
12. The only shotgun forcing cone you forget to test will be chrome.
13. Consecutive serial number revolvers are impossible to tune as matched pairs.
14. The day you decide to take it easy and sit down at the bench to loosen a screw is the day the screwdriver goes through your palm.
15. Never start a job just before lunch. You won't be able to get away until you've missed supper.
16. When working outside, all parts are colored brown, unless you are working on grass. Then they are green.
17. All broken parts are located at the center of mass.
18. Never hire a helper. They don't.
19. All known sources of water will boil or evaporate completely as you grind a spring by hand.
20. The lukewarm Coke on your bench that tastes funny, probably isn't.
21. The telephone call from your best customer occurs in the exact middle of a difficult job, or when you are in the bathroom.
1. Any amount of work you do is considered a "full action job" if the shooter decides to sell the gun.
2. Once you work on a gun, you own the thing for life. Anything that goes wrong with it in the future, including wear out, will be on your head and have to be replaced for free.
3. The only screw or spring that gets lost is the only one that you don't have a spare for.
4. A gun that should be melted into scrap is your worst enemy! You will spend countless unpaid hours getting it back into shooting condition, only to have the customer complain about a slight amount of trigger creep.
5. The amount of time a customer spends with you is inversely proportional to the money they will pay to have work done.
6. The only time a screwdriver will slip and ruin the finish is when the customer is looking over your shoulder.
7. The tap will always catch at the wrong angle.
8. Your wife will find unique applications for your best checkering file.
9. Before allowing a customer to hand you his gun, ask him if he owns a Dremel tool. See 2. above.
10. If the customer asks you whether you have something in stock, he rarely wants it if your answer is "Yes".
11. If a customer states that he is a retired tool and die maker, kindly ask him to leave the premises.
12. The only shotgun forcing cone you forget to test will be chrome.
13. Consecutive serial number revolvers are impossible to tune as matched pairs.
14. The day you decide to take it easy and sit down at the bench to loosen a screw is the day the screwdriver goes through your palm.
15. Never start a job just before lunch. You won't be able to get away until you've missed supper.
16. When working outside, all parts are colored brown, unless you are working on grass. Then they are green.
17. All broken parts are located at the center of mass.
18. Never hire a helper. They don't.
19. All known sources of water will boil or evaporate completely as you grind a spring by hand.
20. The lukewarm Coke on your bench that tastes funny, probably isn't.
21. The telephone call from your best customer occurs in the exact middle of a difficult job, or when you are in the bathroom.
Here's a few of mine:
Here are a few things about the gunsmith business you may or may not know. Be forewarned, this is not candy coated. If you find yourself being offended, please by all means, click here: How to Deal With Hurt Feelings | eHow Please stay tuned for more entries:
1. You weren't a SEAL. Or a sniper. Or special ops. Seriously. You weren't.
2. Gunsmiths are a few and far between. That being said, we pretty much know each other on a first name basis. If you choose to be a jerk to one of us, good luck finding another one to take on your Iver Johnson.
3. Don't come into a shop with a broken/damaged firearm and have it loaded. Common sense dictates that if it is BROKEN, there should be no live round in it. Period.
4. You can either have the gunsmith work on the gun, or you can work on the gun. You can't have both ways when you bring it to me.
5. If you are dealing with a small business, say, oh I don't know, a sole proprietor, they may not answer the phone. For example: I can't work on a firearm if I am answering phones; so either I answer phones or work on firearms through the day. It's really a choice of how soon you want YOUR gun back.
6. Gunsmithing is expensive. I don't set the prices of parts, licenses, tools, machinery, taxes, etc. It is what it is.
7. My shop, my rules. Don't like it? Start up your own shop. Then you can make your own rules.
8. If your gun needs fixed by tomorrow, then you should have brought it in 4 weeks ago. Your poor planning is not my emergency. Certain situations can be understood. But, if you pull your gun out for the first time the day before a match, hunting season, or heading out to the range and realize the whatchamacallit is broken and need it fixed, you're probably going to be out of luck.
9. I don't care what your nephew's friend's cousin said what was wrong with your firearm. If he knew how to fix it, you wouldn't be bringing it to me.
10. Just because I'm not at the age of retirement, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. Don't come into my shop and act like a jerk. If you do, see number 2.
11. Things come up. I get that. But if we have an 8am appointment, and you don't show up and you don't call, text, or email me in a timely manner, you probably won't be given another appointment. Let's not waste each others time.
Here are a few things about the gunsmith business you may or may not know. Be forewarned, this is not candy coated. If you find yourself being offended, please by all means, click here: How to Deal With Hurt Feelings | eHow Please stay tuned for more entries:
1. You weren't a SEAL. Or a sniper. Or special ops. Seriously. You weren't.
2. Gunsmiths are a few and far between. That being said, we pretty much know each other on a first name basis. If you choose to be a jerk to one of us, good luck finding another one to take on your Iver Johnson.
3. Don't come into a shop with a broken/damaged firearm and have it loaded. Common sense dictates that if it is BROKEN, there should be no live round in it. Period.
4. You can either have the gunsmith work on the gun, or you can work on the gun. You can't have both ways when you bring it to me.
5. If you are dealing with a small business, say, oh I don't know, a sole proprietor, they may not answer the phone. For example: I can't work on a firearm if I am answering phones; so either I answer phones or work on firearms through the day. It's really a choice of how soon you want YOUR gun back.
6. Gunsmithing is expensive. I don't set the prices of parts, licenses, tools, machinery, taxes, etc. It is what it is.
7. My shop, my rules. Don't like it? Start up your own shop. Then you can make your own rules.
8. If your gun needs fixed by tomorrow, then you should have brought it in 4 weeks ago. Your poor planning is not my emergency. Certain situations can be understood. But, if you pull your gun out for the first time the day before a match, hunting season, or heading out to the range and realize the whatchamacallit is broken and need it fixed, you're probably going to be out of luck.
9. I don't care what your nephew's friend's cousin said what was wrong with your firearm. If he knew how to fix it, you wouldn't be bringing it to me.
10. Just because I'm not at the age of retirement, doesn't mean I don't know what I'm doing. Don't come into my shop and act like a jerk. If you do, see number 2.
11. Things come up. I get that. But if we have an 8am appointment, and you don't show up and you don't call, text, or email me in a timely manner, you probably won't be given another appointment. Let's not waste each others time.
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
Yes
I have been working on friends's guns for years. Does that make me a gunsmith?
I would trust you to work on any of my guns. I know and respect you.
I have been working on friends's guns for years. Does that make me a gunsmith?
I would trust you to work on any of my guns. I know and respect you.
palerider0485
Sharpshooter
if your good there are jobs out there, but it can be tough, gunsmithing covers many things, stocks, blueing, machining work, pistols, rifles, shotguns..... most gunsmiths have there own specialty. there are jobs in the gun industry, if you go in, work work work.
engineerpower
Shooter
Seems like you have to find your niche and stay in there to keep from being overwhelmed. Some shops specialize in stocks, or triggers, or a particular make/model.
Take Smith Sights for example, from up in Wabash. Smith-Sights: Adjustable, high-impact sighting systems for your Mosin-Nagant!All he appears to cover is Mosin sights, magazine housings, and accuracy shim kits. Get really good at one thing, and everyone who needs that one thing will come to you. You get better at that one thing until you're the best, and there's not a whole lot of variation you have to put up with.
If Josh Smith ever checks this forum, he would be a great guy to weigh in.
Take Smith Sights for example, from up in Wabash. Smith-Sights: Adjustable, high-impact sighting systems for your Mosin-Nagant!All he appears to cover is Mosin sights, magazine housings, and accuracy shim kits. Get really good at one thing, and everyone who needs that one thing will come to you. You get better at that one thing until you're the best, and there's not a whole lot of variation you have to put up with.
If Josh Smith ever checks this forum, he would be a great guy to weigh in.
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