Had to use my firearm in self defense, how long should I wait for charges....

[BehindBlueI's]

So I absolutely will not go into details here, but back in early July I had to draw my firearm in self defense. Thankfully the sight of the gun immediately unmotivated the other individual and I wasn't forced to fire. I was able cautiously retreat and call 911 who summoned some really awesome local officers who tracked him down and gave him a ride to their facilities...where based on some related and unrelated offenses (and a lack of ability to make bail) he still sits as far as I know. I went home and tried rather unsuccessfully to go to sleep. Now as far as I'm aware I acted 100% within the law but I contacted a local attorney I was familiar with and gave him a retainer in the event any charges were filed or the police wanted to question me further (by the way, after preaching "don't talk to the police if x happens" for years...I sang like a canary...).

So here we are in mid-December and beyond the few hours immediately following the event, I haven't been contacted by anyone. I even applied for, and received, my Utah Handgun permit in September and have passed NICS checks. So I contacted the attorney to ask about refunding the retainer and they're telling me it's way too early and charges still may be pending. The couple of discussions I've had make it seem like they're just hoping I forget about it...I'm sure if I demanded "look, give me my money" they would, but they're pretty insistent that it hasn't been enough time. Does anyone have any experience with something like this...do you think they're correct and this is still looming out there waiting to pounce or is it somewhat safe to assume I'm in the clear?

Speaking as a detective that investigates this sort of thing, no news is good news. Legally, there's a 5 year statue of limitations and I could hang on to your case for 4 years, 11 months and then present it to the prosecutor. Realistically, you are a known person with known contact information, not "unknown suspect", and I want to clear my cases because I've got new ones coming every day.

Scenario 1: You talked to a detective that day: I would either do a formal case screening with the prosecutor within a few days, do an informal "are you even remotely interested in this?" with a prosecutor, or document that I can prove no crime occurred and close it out without even bothering the prosecutor. I would not sit on it 6 months, as I'll explain in a bit.

Scenario 2: You talked to uniformed officers only that day: If I haven't talked to you in 6 months, that means I don't want to and am not interested in taking anything in front of the prosecutor.


Why not wait if the statute of limitations allows it? If I let a case hang out as active in my case management for 6 months and hadn't bothered to try to interview you, my sergeant would have his boot so far up my backside I'd be flossing with his shoe laces.

You can always call the PD and ask who your case was assigned to and then ask if its been presented to the prosecutor or will be. My guess would be the only report is of the bad guy's crime, your actions are listed in that as actions taken by a victim in self defense, and there was no criminal investigation targeting you.

 

[jagee]

Delete the OP and buy a new wallet.

 

[Vigilant]

Don't look at me. I am mostly flat fee.

Did he say fat fee?

 

[CathyInBlue]

my sergeant would have his boot so far up my backside I'd be flossing with his shoe laces.

Thank you so much for that imagery. I owe you for that one. Really.

 

[Trigger Time]

Did you point the gun at the perp?
if you just drew the pistol then to my knowledge there is no law you broke

 

[Trigger Time]

My wife's company has lawyers that are at out disposal , I'm not sure how they are paid. All I know is in the last 5 years they haven't cost us anything.

Yep same here. Can't beat it. Better than paying a $5k retainer

 

[Rocketscientist]

I am by no means an expert on this, but just a normal guy who believes in honesty and simplicity. If it were me, I'd just want it overwith. No more screwin around, no unknowns like this out there just waiting to turn my life upside down. I couldn't imagine what you're going through. The insomnia alone would make me crazy.

If it were me, I'd be calling the PD, detectives, prosecutor, whoever, and getting some answers just for the peace of mind.

Glad you're ok and hope it all works out for the better!

 

[CTS]

Did you point the gun at the perp?
if you just drew the pistol then to my knowledge there is no law you broke

See the first sentence of the first post.

 

[j706]

If you have heard anything by now especially if no one has even contacted you since July you have no worry's. The lawyer is just being a lawyer and ready for the worst case senario

 

[CTS]

Speaking as a detective that investigates this sort of thing, no news is good news. Legally, there's a 5 year statue of limitations and I could hang on to your case for 4 years, 11 months and then present it to the prosecutor. Realistically, you are a known person with known contact information, not "unknown suspect", and I want to clear my cases because I've got new ones coming every day.

Scenario 1: You talked to a detective that day: I would either do a formal case screening with the prosecutor within a few days, do an informal "are you even remotely interested in this?" with a prosecutor, or document that I can prove no crime occurred and close it out without even bothering the prosecutor. I would not sit on it 6 months, as I'll explain in a bit.

Scenario 2: You talked to uniformed officers only that day: If I haven't talked to you in 6 months, that means I don't want to and am not interested in taking anything in front of the prosecutor.


Why not wait if the statute of limitations allows it? If I let a case hang out as active in my case management for 6 months and hadn't bothered to try to interview you, my sergeant would have his boot so far up my backside I'd be flossing with his shoe laces.

You can always call the PD and ask who your case was assigned to and then ask if its been presented to the prosecutor or will be. My guess would be the only report is of the bad guy's crime, your actions are listed in that as actions taken by a victim in self defense, and there was no criminal investigation targeting you.

Thank you very much for posting that. I only spoke with the officers who responded and it was around 4:00am. Once I saw them on site I put my gun in my safe and met them on the front porch of my house...so they definitely wouldn't have trouble finding me. The other fellow was 18 and some combination of drunk/high, and my understanding is that his friend who was watching from down the street confirmed everything I said happened. It honestly still scares me just thinking about it. I'm glad I had my firearm, I'm all but certain it saved me from serious harm or worse that night, but I pray nothing like that ever happens again. I happened in seconds and had me rattled for days.

 

[88GT]

See the first sentence of the first post.

Well, you said you drew your firearm. That doesn't necessarily mean you pointed it at the bad guy.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

You have received good advice from 3 members that have a good history of good advice on this forum.

Worst case scenario you have to get a new lawyer, if you want the retainer back now.

Might be billed for phone calls to the investigator. Time is money.

Sounds like you covered all the basics and did right.

 

[HoughMade]

Pro Bono (free) legal services for the poor. Interest rates have been so low lately that the fund struggles to cover expenses.

IOLTA FAQs

Correct:

The funds will be used primarily to support pro bono civil legal services for persons of limited means.

the establishment of pro bono programs;
to provide for equal access to civil justice to persons of limited means;
to provide law-related education programs for the public;
to assist in research about the legal system;
to improve the administration of justice; and
to fund other public service programs specifically approved by the Indiana Supreme Court.

...and yes, if an attorney maintains a trust account, it must be an IOLTA account.

 

[MCgrease08]

If you were able to secure the gun in your safe and it wasn't taken as evidence, I'd say that's a darn good sign you won't be facing any charges.

 

[KittySlayer]

You have received good advice from 3 members that have a good history of good advice on this forum.

Worst case scenario you have to get a new lawyer, if you want the retainer back now.

Might be billed for phone calls to the investigator. Time is money.

Sounds like you covered all the basics and did right.

My thoughts on your retainer from working for attorneys in a different area of law than you are asking about:

• The purpose of the retainer is to make sure the attorney gets paid before providing services.
• It is really important if you are sitting in a jail cell and need stuff taken care of until you can make it to the bank and get the cash in the attorneys hands.
• In your case, if the current issue raises its ugly head again you are not going to be hauled off to jail so you will have time to get cash to the attorney to represent you.
• If you are in a situation where you cant get the cash retainer to the attorney (this issue or future issues) is there someone you trust (wife, parent, kid...) with access to the cash to pay the attorney while you are cooling your heels in jail?
• You can keep the same attorney even if he refunds your retainer. You simply need to make payment arrangements for future services.
• Ask for a refund keeping in mind there may be a deduction for some nominal services already performed answering your questions and any research or investigation performed.

 

[Alamo]

Correct:



...and yes, if an attorney maintains a trust account, it must be an IOLTA account.

Well that's no fun. I thought I was onto a good scandal. "INDIANA BAR FUNDS OPEN BAR WITH CLIENT MONEY!!"

I read the FAQs, and as far as I can tell nowhere does the IOLTA FAQs explain what IOLTA stands for. (Interest on Lawyer Trust Accounts?)
Also, even if the SCOTUS approved it, it sounds a bit...off. We'll use clients' deposits to earn interest but we'll fund other lawyers with it. So it's actually a tax, but only on those who need a lawyer on retainer. Or on their lawyer.

As far as the OP -- based on BehindBlueI's post, I'd be on the horn to the PD pronto. Good luck tho. Every time I have tried to contact a detective, it's basically amounted to leaving a series of voicemails that get answered days or weeks later, if at all.

 

[KittySlayer]

Well that's no fun. I thought I was onto a good scandal.

These aren't the droids you are looking for. No scandals to be seen with IOLTA. Just a profession trying to do something good for people that can't afford to get help.

I read the FAQs, and as far as I can tell nowhere does the IOLTA FAQs explain what IOLTA stands for. (Interest on Lawyer Trust Accounts?)

Interest on Lawyer Trust Accounts

Also, even if the SCOTUS approved it, it sounds a bit...off. We'll use clients' deposits to earn interest but we'll fund other lawyers with it. So it's actually a tax, but only on those who need a lawyer on retainer. Or on their lawyer.

Have you seen the interest rates banks are paying lately?

If you have a large retainer or funds in a trust account arrangements can be made to segregate your particular trust account and earn interest on it that is payable to you. Trouble is the administrative cost of dealing with this can typically wipe out any interest income that you might earn on a small retainer. It takes an employee of the law office time to open the segregated bank account, go to the bank to make the initial deposit, monitor the monthly statements, close the account... So by time you compensate the law office for all these services you pretty well wipe out any interest income you would have earned.

The Pro Bono money does not go to the lawyers providing services to poor people, rather it goes to the administration of the Pro Bono operations. Someone to field the calls from potential Pro Bono clients that need services, determine if they are qualified for free services, find an attorney with the skill set and time to represent the Pro Bono client for FREE...

As far as the OP -- based on BehindBlueI's post, I'd be on the horn to the PD pronto.

Not me. You don't want people digging into any old, dusty files. Nothing good can come out of it.

• The original detective probably decided not to pursue but will never tell you.
• Maybe it was put on the back burner, low priority pile and will be forgotten. Unless of course you call.
• Maybe some new guy with a burr up his butt picks it up when you call and decides you are a vigilante and wants to make an example of you.
• The only good thing that can come from calling is peace of mind but in reality you are unlikely to get an answer that makes you rest easy.

 

[JettaKnight]

CTS has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

 

[Nodonutz]

As a retired LEO, I would follow BehindBlueI's suggestion of contacting the PD and finding out the status of their investigation.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Thank you very much for posting that. I only spoke with the officers who responded and it was around 4:00am. Once I saw them on site I put my gun in my safe and met them on the front porch of my house...so they definitely wouldn't have trouble finding me. The other fellow was 18 and some combination of drunk/high, and my understanding is that his friend who was watching from down the street confirmed everything I said happened. It honestly still scares me just thinking about it. I'm glad I had my firearm, I'm all but certain it saved me from serious harm or worse that night, but I pray nothing like that ever happens again. I happened in seconds and had me rattled for days.

That's a completely normal reaction, and just know it does fade with time.

I'd say you're good to go. No detective contacting you strongly indicates scenario #2, it was obvious you were justified in the mind of the responding officers and booking sergeant, and the only investigation into your actions was the initial response. Funny how talking to the police when you're in the right can just make things real simple, eh?