Hammer forge hawk head!,or FORGET GET ABOUT IT??

[whocares]

FIRST PLEASE CONSIDER I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA HOW TO DO THIS!

Now having said that, the lack of critical or vital information has never stopped me before in my persuit of manly type fun. I mean really, I go to work tommorrow and some coworker is like, "Hey, what did you do this weekend" and I say "Well nothing really....Just used a wicked hot fire and a massive hammer to forge myself an incredible spike tomahawk" The other guy already feels a little sissy when he wants to talk about football!


OK, really though. I dig tomahawks and hatchets. In my view a tomahawk is more a weapon than a tool and a hatchet the opposite being more tool. I have several axes, hatchets and hawks and have had this particular hatchet head lying around for quite some time. I like the look of it. Its very old... I think and I dig the lines and the what I guess is a wire cutter at beard.

I would like to achieve a concept like that when an Estwing is transformed into a bad ass spike hawk.

My questions are, First is this old Craftsman hatchet head a collectible antique? Its marked "Craftsman Reg. U.S. PAT. OFF. - M" Assuming that its not a prized relic from times past then should I just start grinding and filing until I achieve a pointy end? or can I heat this baby up and hammer it out?

I am curious as to how hot approximately and for how long does a piece of steel such as this need to be heated before becoming malable? Also is quenching in water the best after shaping? I would like to use heat thinking if I can do it properly it will allow me to stretch the spike out longer to a tip which I would finish with a file or grinder. If I really am better off just grinding it then Im going to end up with a stubby spike.

The head weighs 1.75 pounds and measures 6.25 inches accross the top. The cutting face is 3.5 inches and the length of the hammer from the back of the main body comes out 1.5 inches. Really I just need to heat up that 1.5 inch section of hammer and pound it out to about three inches somehow.

Pics for reference. I trust and appreciate the knife guys input on this site. If you think its a stupid endeavor then say so, otherwise I have time and I like that feeling I get when I work hard on something and it turns out how I hoped or better!

 

[PapaScout]

Any day's a good day to play in fire. You have a forge and coal?

 

[PointFiveO]

What's your starting point? Do you have any blacksmithing tools, have you Youtubed this at all? I haven't done any forging but I have done my share of internet investigation on the topic. If you're looking for a starting point I can provide that much, but other than that I am useless. But be sure to give us a Work In Progress!!!!!! We need more of those on this forum.

 

[whocares]

Thats a negative

I am forgeless per say. I can get coal no problem but as far as a forge goes I need to go makeshift if possible. So whats a makeshift forge look like.

 

[PointFiveO]

From my little bit of knowledge: no probably don't water quench it. You need to figure out what kind of metal it is, but my guess is you'll be using a fast oil for the final heat treat. But I don't think (I am speaking far from my comfort zone right now, forgive me) you will be quenching it before you grind it out. I think you shape it up, anneal it (which I think is air cooled, it keeps the metal soft so you can grind it out), grind it, then take it back to the forge. You'll then heat treat it based on whatever metal it is, then you quench and temper it.

You're getting into a very in depth thing here. You need to understand the metallurgy enough to make decisions on the fly, and you are diving into a whole art when it comes to shaping the metal. Not to mention a hobby that requires tools. Forge, coal, anvil, hammers, tools, vises, leather protective gear, etc.

Also you have to take into account that you are making a throwing hawk. Does the metal you have work well for this? You also have to heat treat it soft enough that it won't break on impact.

You need to put some serious hours into Youtube and Bladeforum if you haven't already if you're diving straight into forging.

 

[PointFiveO]

I think you could get a forge for as much as you could make one. They are cheap, I saw one bundled with a blacksmith drill press on craigslist a few weeks back for like $250. You'll spend more on an anvil, hammers, and tools than you will on your forge.

Basically they look like shallow sinks with what looks like a turbocharger blower blowing into the bottom of the pan.

 

[whocares]

What's your starting point? Do you have any blacksmithing tools, have you Youtubed this at all? I haven't done any forging but I have done my share of internet investigation on the topic. If you're looking for a starting point I can provide that much, but other than that I am useless. But be sure to give us a Work In Progress!!!!!! We need more of those on this forum.

I guess what I am trying to establish is if I have the means to begin a work in progress

 

[TiminMishawaka]

I am forgeless per say. I can get coal no problem but as far as a forge goes I need to go makeshift if possible. So whats a makeshift forge look like.

Do you have a hole in the ground and a hair dryer? You have a forge. At its most basic form a forge is nothing more than a charcoal fire with some way of blowing air into it to make the fire hotter. You could make a small fire ring with some rocks and leave one out to have a place to blow air into.

I would anneal the whole thing first before trying to forge it. If it's not oil hardened, it's certainly work hardened and likely to shatter if you beat on it too much. To anneal it you need to heat it up to the point that the metal is no longer magnetic. This happens at about a bright orange color. Don't trust your eyes though, trust the magnet. When you touch a magnet to it and it no longer attempts to draw to the metal, you're at the right temperature. Then you have to let it cool back VERY slowly. Overnight. You do this by burying it in the hot coals and leaving it there to come back the next day. Do not douse with water or anything or you will simply reharden it.

 

[Lagrange]

I have to tell ya, I admire your willingness to give it a shot. I love hawks, own a couple forged hawks, never made one but I would love to give it a shot someday. I love this idea, but right now I have to force myself to focus on what I have on my plate...which aint easy since you put this in my head.

 

[whocares]

Do you have a hole in the ground and a hair dryer? You have a forge. At its most basic form a forge is nothing more than a charcoal fire with some way of blowing air into it to make the fire hotter. You could make a small fire ring with some rocks and leave one out to have a place to blow air into.

I would anneal the whole thing first before trying to forge it. If it's not oil hardened, it's certainly work hardened and likely to shatter if you beat on it too much. To anneal it you need to heat it up to the point that the metal is no longer magnetic. This happens at about a bright orange color. Don't trust your eyes though, trust the magnet. When you touch a magnet to it and it no longer attempts to draw to the metal, you're at the right temperature. Then you have to let it cool back VERY slowly. Overnight. You do this by burying it in the hot coals and leaving it there to come back the next day. Do not douse with water or anything or you will simply reharden it.

OK, this is what I want to hear! Its an old craftsman hammer hatchet and I am willing to just grind it and also willing to write it off if things go terribly south. SO, Yes I have a fire pit and ways to fuel the fire per air inductiion. I have a bellow and air compressor and hair dryer etc...

So after it is annealed and no longer magnetic approximately at bright orange can I begin to shape the medal? Do I wait until after overnight slow cool down and reheat to form then quench? At what point am I ready to begin trying to form the metal and at what point is quenching preferred.?

Thanks

 

[PapaScout]

Annealing takes a few times of heating to non-magnetic (around 1450 degrees or what I would call a cherry red color) and then let it slowly cool. Doesn't have to be overnight but I'd leave it sit until cool to the touch.

I made my forge out of a truck brakedrum, 2" piping, and a hairdryer with a dimmer switch on it. My first anvil was a two foot piece of railroad track.

 

[Lagrange]

The annealing process depends on the metal that is used. My guess is that your hachet head is either a shallow hardening steel, or it has a cutting edge heat welded into the head. In either case I would probably bring it to non magnetic and let cool overnight in the fire a couple times.
Once you do this, the head is ready to be reworked. After you achieve the desired shape you want you can re-heat treat it.

 

[whocares]

Update

Ok, Im hopefully beyond the point of un magnifying my hatchet head. When you guys said coal for fuel I just figured I run to Kroger and grab a bag of briquettes. Then I remembered the wheel barrel loads I had moved out of my basements long abandoned coal room and knew that there was alot of vintage coal relics still down there. So I filled up two five gallon buckets with some real old coal and began the insanely challenging task of getting it to burn. It was damp I guess and mostly small chips and burned hot once going, but getting there took a while. In hindsight I will buy new coal tommorrow for phase two.

So I was exhausting myself fanning the fire of my new forgery by hand when I had the bright idea to use extension cords and a fan.

I felt I had achieved a level of heat which I could begin the proccess and inserted the hatchet head

The coal was really glowing white hot and I had an abundance so if one fan was such a help then, hell why not

I stoked the coal and buried my steel in the inferno and when it began to show a glow I removed it for an hour or so and let it become cool again. I then stuck it back in the center of the coal pit and began re heating.

At this point it is outside chilling in the coals overnight. In the morning I will test with a magnet and see if I have acheived an anealed state.

More to come, and more questions for sure.

Thanks guys

 

[Lagrange]

Um...no. You have to have the hawk head glowing hot...somewhere near 1500 + or -.
While it is glowing hot, see if the magnet sticks to it, if it does, it aint hot enough. When the magnet no longer sticks to it, you have it hot enough and can let it begin to cool.
I use a mechanics magnet...the kind that telescopes so it is about 2 or three feet long. That way you can check it without getting burned.

 

[Lagrange]

If you cant get the fire hot enough, you might consider finding a way to introduce the forced air from beneath the fire. Perhaps a metal tube or something to force air through. Most forges work in this manner.

 

[whocares]

The pics do not represent how hot the steel got. I had just put the head on the coles when I took the pic. These were merely a reference to what I was working with

 

[TiminMishawaka]

So after it is annealed and no longer magnetic approximately at bright orange can I begin to shape the medal? Do I wait until after overnight slow cool down and reheat to form then quench? At what point am I ready to begin trying to form the metal and at what point is quenching preferred.?

Thanks

Yeah, once it's annealed, you can start forging it once you've heated it up. Someone suggested annealing it a couple times and while that's not necessary it sure isn't a bad idea for this project because it's your first and it's likely had many years of work hardening on it. I say burying it in coals and leaving it overnight because a watched blade never anneals. You'll keep wanting to mess with it and will end up rehardening it. Trust me, I know, lol.

As to your forge set up, you're definitely on the right track but I would suggest finding a way to redirect the air down and up underneath the fire. A trench in the dirt, a flexible dryer exhaust duct in the trench leading to the base of the fire and you got air coming up from the bottom and it will be blasting hot air on the metal like a blast furnace. The way you have it right now the moving air from the fans are cooling the metal as you're trying to heat it. It will work and you will get it hot enough eventually that way but it's harder on you that way. I didn't suggest this at first because I wanted to see what way you were going to go with this. Seeing what you're doing though, this is my suggestion.

 

[TiminMishawaka]

At this point it is outside chilling in the coals overnight. In the morning I will test with a magnet and see if I have acheived an anealed state.

To clarify, the metal only goes nonmagnetic when hot. That whole nonmagnetic thing is just an indicator that you've got the metal hot enough for all the metallurgy magic to take place.

Here's how you test for annealing. Get a metal file and don't press into it but with it's own weight, try to run it across the metal. On a hardened piece of metal the file will just skate across. If the metal is annealed, the teeth of the file will bite into it. Now one thing you do have to make sure of is that you're not running your file across forge scale. This is basically burnt material on the surface of the steel. For this project at hand it probably won't be as big of an issue but it's worth knowing.

Btw, I don't think anyone's said it but when you're heating and beating steel, especially something that's been previously hardened, the importance of eye protection can't be overstated.

 

[whocares]

OK, the statement now that it only loses its magnetic capacity while hot is good to know. I was thinking somehow I was going to magicly turn this into non ferrous metal. I was thinking of all the scrap I was going to anneal and take to the local recycle center with a copper tone as all they do is slap it with a magnet and weigh it, lol, Really though I was.

I got it glowing hot and still magnetic. Its chillig in the coal bed till tommorrow now. I will get a trench system going tommorrow and see how it goes.

Is this not possible with a torch or what? Just curious

 

[Lagrange]

It's possible to do with a torch, but not easy. If you have access to an oxy-acetylene torch it will be possible, but you need to keep the torch moving and remember to try and get the entire piece the same temperature...which can be difficult, but possible.
A propane torch wont get it done without a special burner head and an added forced air system. The fire pit option is probably the easiest.
Your on the right track....I'm giddy with anticipation. Good job so far. Love the enthusiasm.