Handgun Stopping power article

[crispy]

What he said.....12 gauge one shot stop only 58%? From what distance 100 yrds? Sorry but I would venture to say that 00 buck shot at 7 yards would equal a "One Shot Stop"

What are you guys reading? Its right there!

One shot stop when hitting the torso or head was 86%

Read what is actually there and not what you want it to say!

 

[hoosierbulldog]

Pretty interesting.

An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power

I think that the summary is pretty good in this article. Yes, his data might be flawed but this isn't really easy data to collect. Unless you've been shot, I would think that it would be a pretty hard thing to quantify with definite accuracy.

 

[finity]

Here is a copy of a post I made in another thread:

From the article:

What I believe that my numbers show is that in the majority of shootings, the person shot merely gives up without being truly incapacitated by the bullet. In such an event, almost any bullet will perform admirably. If you want to be prepared to deal with someone who won't give up so easily, or you want to be able to have good performance even after shooting through an intermediate barrier, I would skip carrying the "mouse gun" .22s, .25s and .32s.

I completely agree with his "bottom line" assessment.

Any gun is better than no gun since most BG's don't want to get shot AT ALL even with a .22LR. Once they get shot, they STOP.

The problem then becomes, "what if they don't want to stop?"

The solution becomes "you need a gun that will have a higher chance of MAKING them stop."

EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL, the larger calibers can do that.

It's all a balance...& always is. Carry the biggest round that you feel comfortable with. If I had a choice between a .22LR & a .45, EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL, I'd carry the .45. EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL, a .45 is going to have a higher probability of stopping someone WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE STOPPED than a .22.

 

[rnmcguire]

Clear as mud!

 

[paperboy]

What are you guys reading? Its right there!

One shot stop when hitting the torso or head was 86%

Read what is actually there and not what you want it to say!

Sorry but even if someone takes a hit of 00 buck or slug in the arm or leg, it will equal a one shot stop....It will freakin' rip the appendage off (or darn close)! Of course I say buck shot/slug because thats what probably 90% of those who have a shooty for defense use. Just sayin.....

 

[snowwalker]

Thanks for the info, always learning new stuff.

 

[Silverado]

There is no such thing as a "one shot stop percentage." There are so many dynamics in how and why a person is "stopped" that it is impossible to accurately quantify. As long as you pick a bullet that penetrates adequately to reach the vitals, and practice with it, you've done all that you can to prepare.

 

[Ricnzak]

It's all a balance...& always is. Carry the biggest round that you feel comfortable with. If I had a choice between a .22LR & a .45, EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL, I'd carry the .45. EVERYTHING ELSE BEING EQUAL, a .45 is going to have a higher probability of stopping someone WHO DOESN'T WANT TO BE STOPPED than a .22.

Well stated! I would like a 45 as well but it dosen't work for me in the summer. I do a 22lr Tomcat. Always in the shorts pocket. I just think of it a defensive weapon only. It's like sticking a ice pick in a body. Just do it a bunch if possible. My 38 snubby is a IWB or OWB gun for me. To big for a pants pocket gun for me.

Sorry but even if someone takes a hit of 00 buck or slug in the arm or leg, it will equal a one shot stop....It will freakin' rip the appendage off (or darn close)! Of course I say buck shot/slug because thats what probably 90% of those who have a shooty for defense use. Just sayin.....

Yeah but keep in mind what if only one or two pellets hit? Always be ready to pop them again.

 

[UncleMike]

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said;
"The only thing that will stop a man, with one hit, 100% of the time, is a supersonic phone pole."

 

[rugertoter]

Agree.

 

[IndyGlockMan]

Neat article, but he only talks about calibers which leaves out one (or more) major huge giant variable...
What kind of round? Hollow point, FMJ, Black Talon, Winchester, Remington, Hornaday, WHAT???

His article says... "I documented all of the data I could; tracking caliber, type of bullet (if known),"
So, he combined the data on "type of bullet" and just did the comparisons by caliber? What good is that?

He also combined police and military shootings which is a huge mistake because the military uses NATO ball ammo and most police use some type of hollow point. Last time I checked, soldiers & terrorists dressed a little different than a gang-banger or an angry alcoholic ex-husband.

Any gun savvy person knows that a 25acp FMJ is going to have a much different effect than somebody shot with a 45acp 230gr Federal Hydroshock or a .40 cal Winchester Ranger, or whatever.

In my opinion, he should have at least made separate comparisons for calibers in FMJ and calibers in hollow point. I'm sorry he spent 10 years on this but you can't ignore or combine huge variables like that and still call it scientific.

 

[Jeremy1066]

I read through this thread just to hear crispy say "WHERES YOUR STUDY?" again

 

[TopDog]

This was a very good article. I think his conclusion is spot on. The military ran lots of similar test and had the same conclusions. Which is mostly...get more rounds on target if you want to win the fight. Hence why they switched to a faster shooting/higher capacity weapon like the M9a1. Also watch Hitcock45 videos on youtube. He shoots just about every handgun under the sun. Watch the 9mm Glock 19 video and it becomes very evident that this gun was made for a gun fight.
I have a friend whos a surgeon at the ER in Anderson. I once asked him what kind of shots are most people killed by. His response was definitive... shot guns and small gun. People just dont see the small guns coming and it was just a matter of getting the drop on someone and shooting them several times. Didnt matter that it was just a .22.

I was active duty when the testing and the switch took place and the main reason for switching to 9mm was to be inline with NATO. Never heard anything from the test that indicated the switch was happening because the military decided that firepower was more important than accuracy. The Marine Corps may have changed philosophy but I doubt it. The Marine Corps has always taught accuracy over firepower. I'm not calling you out, just wondering if you have a reference that supports your statement.

 

[turnandshoot4]

I work in an ER and stopping power is a joke. It is all about shot placement. .22s kill lots of people when put in the right place. .45 won't blow anything off. I saw a. 40 get stopped by a tooth. No his jaw wasn't ripped off or anything. Just stuck next to the tooth.

 

[kingnereli]

In the real world there is an appropriate process for disputing a study.

If it is flawed, let's see your research, LET'S SEE YOUR STUDY?

Let it rest man. You're going to ride this pony 'till it dies. I don't need a study to show that another one is junk. He questions some of his own results. He doesn't have enough data. He doesn't note bullet type. He factors in psychological stops as if it has anything to do with the action wound effectiveness of any given caliber. The study is junk.

 

[crispy]

Let it rest man. You're going to ride this pony 'till it dies. I don't need a study to show that another one is junk. He questions some of his own results. He doesn't have enough data. He doesn't note bullet type. He factors in psychological stops as if it has anything to do with the action wound effectiveness of any given caliber. The study is junk.

Yeah, I'm going to ride that pony called "science".

Purpose of study was not "wound effectiveness".

He has more data than you... which is none.

 

[Eulogy32]

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said;
"The only thing that will stop a man, with one hit, 100% of the time, is a supersonic phone pole."

Thanks for the unexpected laugh.

The data is what it is. But I really appreciated his explanations and summaries.

 

[Smitty506th]

This article states what experienced people already know. Put rounds on target and don't stop till you follow your target down and they are no longer a threat, no matter what size rock you are throwing. There is no "magic" bullet.

 

[finity]

Yeah, I'm going to ride that pony called "science".

Purpose of study was not "wound effectiveness".

He has more data than you... which is none.

Your real name wouldn't happen to be Greg Ellifritz would it?

 

[buford t justice]

All I know is I wouldn't want to be shot with any of them.
I got shot with a pellet gun when I was a kid and that stopped me.