"Handouts"

[christman]

I have this feeling you don't like me much.

I like you as much as I like fletch. jkjk....Seriously though...I could care less about liking or not liking you. Honestly, I envy the fact that you work without paying taxes. I'm sure many of us wish we could do that if we aren't already. I honestly don't mind being taxed for things that I benefit from. I.E. roads, schools, police, fire, ems. etc. etc..... I just don't like being taxed for these handouts you speak of that I have no control over who gets what.

So far from you I have gathered in a short span of posts that you feel you are above everyone else and work without paying taxes on the excuse that you "didn't know" and your family,(through no fault of your own) are on every handout possible to support said group because of their inability to work for whatever reason.

I would actually have more respect for you if you said **** the government as the reason you refused to pay taxes. At least then I know you have a cause in mind while doing so. But as others have said....Don't be so light skinned. You'll find on the interwebs that many people will agree with you one day and then **** on you the next. Just like high school actually now that I think about it.... Hang around you'll fit in as long as you like to shoot stuff and don't pretend you passed the bar exam in 1837 alongside President Lincoln like a couple other members we have here.(well one)

 

[H&R12G]

Pay attention, junior. It's not that we're opposed to paying taxes. It's that we're opposed to being told that we have to do so for the benefit of others by a government that was not empowered with the authority to demand it. To expand upon the 4y/o example (beautiful, btw), it's not just being told to give up your toys to some other grubby-handed brat, it's being told to do so by grubby-handed brat's skanky mother. But being the respectful and responsible 4y/o she is being taught to be, she grudgingly obeys because she's been taught that all adults carry some authority to some extent (we'll leave the obvious perv issue out of it for simplicity).

It's our respect for the rule of law and our understanding that to disrupt the system is to destroy it on some level. We accept the overbearing authority of someone who doesn't really have it because we see that the consequences of disobeying are far uglier than obeying.



There's your problem, kiddo. You've not yet been the victim of enslavement and robbery by Big Brother to fully realize how unfair of a system it really is.

Tell me, did you read the post about going to your neighbor's house and demanding a portion of their income to pay for your mother's care? Did you understand the part that welfare programs do just that, only instead of YOU doing it, the .gov does it for you? Do you get that the only difference between any of us here earning a wage and the black man in chains 200 years ago is the chains?



When was that? 2 years ago? I keed. I keed. Sort of. You are coming across as extremely young and naive and ignorant. And while I don't have a problem with a desire to learn, I do have a problem with someone telling me I'm wrong who hasn't the slightest clue what he's talking about. Kinda like you'd probably blow a gasket if I told you that you had torque the intake bolts down to 9ft-lbs when it clearly should be 18.

You just don't pull the tail of the tiger and expect him to roll over for a belly scratchin'.

I will agree with you on that I am young, Naive and ignorant. And I did come off as a little rude and in asking my questions made me look like an A$$hole. But, it's hard to ask questions to people I feel like look down on me because of the assistance my family gets. The only way I can put it is with a firearms expression. I'm sure some of you OC. How do you feel when people look at you with that firearm on your hip and say things as you pass? Or when someone comfronts you about that firearm? Because we all know what the anti-gun public thinks. You own a firearm, you must be a criminal. ANd it irritates you that they think of you in that way. Well, that's how I feel. The people that inspect my house yearly look at us as bad people, former drug or current drug users. And seeing "handouts" put in such a negative way offends me, like im sure you feel when someone eyes your firearm in a negative way. And I guess when I started this I should have been more friendly and not assuming about it. And I know I pi$$ed people off in doing this. And some people did get to me. And I'm sure I have made people dislike me in this. But, now, I am apologizing for being so pressumptuous and opening my mouth where I see I had no business. I APOLOGIZE. I see I made a huge error.

 

[christman]

I will agree with you on that I am young, Naive and ignorant. And I did come off as a little rude and in asking my questions made me look like an A$. But, it's hard to ask questions to people I feel like look down on me because of the assistance my family gets. The only way I can put it is with a firearms expression. I'm sure some of you OC. How do you feel when people look at you with that firearm on your hip and say things as you pass? Or when someone comfronts you about that firearm? Because we all know what the anti-gun public thinks. You own a firearm, you must be a criminal. ANd it irritates you that they think of you in that way. Well, that's how I feel. The people that inspect my house yearly look at us as bad people, former drug or current drug users. And seeing "handouts" put in such a negative way offends me, like im sure you feel when someone eyes your firearm in a negative way. And I guess when I started this I should have been more friendly and not assuming about it. And I know I pi$ people off in doing this. And some people did get to me. And I'm sure I have made people dislike me in this. But, now, I am apologizing for being so pressumptuous and opening my mouth where I see I had no business. I APOLOGIZE. I see I made a huge error.

Don't roll over so easy. You don't owe any of us a thing. We are merely stating our opinions that you asked for. You are merely entertaining us while we are bored sitting in front of an INGO screen. Man up. And furthermore...if you don't like having "handouts" used so negatively....Start working 3 jobs a day and dig out of that hole. You wouldn't be the first one on here to do it. A lot of us came from handout families. We live in Indiana for crying out loud... We just chose not to continue the line and found a way to hold our own.

 

[jsharmon7]

Tell me, did you read the post about going to your neighbor's house and demanding a portion of their income to pay for your mother's care? Did you understand the part that welfare programs do just that, only instead of YOU doing it, the .gov does it for you? Do you get that the only difference between any of us here earning a wage and the black man in chains 200 years ago is the chains?

I think you make a good point with this post. I hope that you are using the slavery comment as an overly dramatic vehicle to make the point though. Or do you really believe that?

 

[Fletch]

Can I borrow that for future use?

Have at it.

 

[DarkRose]

I do agree. THey should drug test those on assistance. But, just a thought would it makes taxes if we required those who took it and didn't pay for it (According to your idea, those who come up clean don't pay for it) would that raise taxes?

I've taken a few drug screens at cost as a condition of pre-employment, and I don't think any of them ran over $25 or so. If the government took half the cost, and just cut the benefits by the other half ($12.50 a month) they would save MUCH more than spending.

Consider the average Food Stamps in Indiana for a single parent with 1 dependant is around $300-$400 a month, and if you get TANF (new name for welfare) that's usually around $200 a month, for the same.
If you cut one person from the program for drug use, that saves over $6000 a year... (using $350 for food stamps and 200 for TANF), against an outlay of $144 a year for testing for the state, and a reduction in benefits of the same for the recipients...
I know some people in BAD shape, but $12 a month still won't break them, and if you get assistance from multiple sources, the hit could be spread even more, $6 from TANF, $6 from food stamps, or from HUD, or Section 8, or whatever.
Seems like simple cost savings to me.

 

[88GT]

I will agree with you on that I am young, Naive and ignorant. And I did come off as a little rude and in asking my questions made me look like an A$. But, it's hard to ask questions to people I feel like look down on me because of the assistance my family gets. The only way I can put it is with a firearms expression. I'm sure some of you OC. How do you feel when people look at you with that firearm on your hip and say things as you pass? Or when someone comfronts you about that firearm? Because we all know what the anti-gun public thinks. You own a firearm, you must be a criminal. ANd it irritates you that they think of you in that way. Well, that's how I feel. The people that inspect my house yearly look at us as bad people, former drug or current drug users. And seeing "handouts" put in such a negative way offends me, like im sure you feel when someone eyes your firearm in a negative way. And I guess when I started this I should have been more friendly and not assuming about it. And I know I pi$ people off in doing this. And some people did get to me. And I'm sure I have made people dislike me in this. But, now, I am apologizing for being so pressumptuous and opening my mouth where I see I had no business. I APOLOGIZE. I see I made a huge error.

No hard feelings. And no need to apologize.

FWIW, I don't give a rat's patootie what some libtard thinks of me. In fact, I find a wicked sense of delight at pegging their OMG-meter if they see me with a gun on the hip (I get extra points for having two small children in tow too). But that too is a function of age and experience. Very few things in life are worth the aggravation we let them cause us.

 

[88GT]

I think you make a good point with this post. I hope that you are using the slavery comment as an overly dramatic vehicle to make the point though. Or do you really believe that?

Is it not true?

 

[Fletch]

I think you make a good point with this post. I hope that you are using the slavery comment as an overly dramatic vehicle to make the point though. Or do you really believe that?

Is it not true?

The only difference is in degree, not in kind. The house slaves may have slept, ate, and dressed better, but they were still slaves.

 

[jsharmon7]

Is it not true?

You were actually serious?!

Well I guess if you ignore the rape, the whippings, selling your children, not allowing you to go where you want to go, forcing you to pick cotton at gunpoint, etc, etc, etc. then yes it's EXACTLY the same. Yes, the government forcing you to pay taxes is every bit as horrible as what the slaves 200 years ago went through.

 

[H&R12G]

You were actually serious?!

Well I guess if you ignore the rape, the whippings, selling your children, not allowing you to go where you want to go, forcing you to pick cotton at gunpoint, etc, etc, etc. then yes it's EXACTLY the same. Yes, the government forcing you to pay taxes is every bit as horrible as what the slaves 200 years ago went through.

That was my issue with the word. I think a different word should have been used.

 

[88GT]

You were actually serious?!

Well I guess if you ignore the rape, the whippings, selling your children, not allowing you to go where you want to go, forcing you to pick cotton at gunpoint, etc, etc, etc. then yes it's EXACTLY the same. Yes, the government forcing you to pay taxes is every bit as horrible as what the slaves 200 years ago went through.

Right, because stripping them of the individual sovereignty is made so much more acceptable without the physical abuse?

I'm sure they would all tell you their bondage would have been infinitely better and they would be completely happy to work without pay if the beatings had just stopped.

 

[88GT]

That was my issue with the word. I think a different word should have been used.

Then find one that better represents having the fruits of your labor stripped from you against your will by force or the threat of force for the benefit of others who haven't earned it and I'll use it.

 

[H&R12G]

Then find one that better represents having the fruits of your labor stripped from you against your will for the benefit of others who haven't earned by force or the threat of force and I'll use it.

Meant no disrespect. I just thought a different word should be used. If I find a different word better suited I will respectfully submit it.

 

[88GT]

Meant no disrespect. I just thought a different word should be used. If I find a different word better suited I will respectfully submit it.

None taken. But I can't believe that otherwise intelligent individuals fall prey to the game of words and meanings. There's no monopoly on slavery as a crime against black men and women in Colonial America. Slavery isn't about the chains or the beatings. Those were just the weapons used to keep the slaves in check at the time. Our federal government has its own version today. They may be less physical in nature, but make no mistake, they are every bit as vicious and disgusting.

 

[H&R12G]

None taken. But I can't believe that otherwise intelligent individuals fall prey to the game of words and meanings. There's no monopoly on slavery as a crime against black men and women in Colonial America. Slavery isn't about the chains or the beatings. Those were just the weapons used to keep the slaves in check at the time. Our federal government has its own version today. They may be less physical in nature, but make no mistake, they are every bit as vicious and disgusting.

Well, I get your argument for use of the word. And actually looking up "Take by force" a lot of similar words did describe what happened in the slave trade.

Here's the link. <a href="http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/take+by+force">take by force</a>

So, once again I was wrong. The word does fit. I tried looking up similar to what you typed but I guess it was to specific and got some "snow" results that didn't help.

 

[dross]

You were actually serious?!

Well I guess if you ignore the rape, the whippings, selling your children, not allowing you to go where you want to go, forcing you to pick cotton at gunpoint, etc, etc, etc. then yes it's EXACTLY the same. Yes, the government forcing you to pay taxes is every bit as horrible as what the slaves 200 years ago went through.

The rapes, the whippings, the selling of children, the forcing to pick cotton are only differences in degree. And yes, degree does matter. Yet, slavery starts with an idea, the idea being that for some reason, another man must work for the benefit of others by force.

So imagine that 200 years ago the slaveowners had a policy that slaves couldn't be whipped, raped, or their children sold. In fact, they even had to be paid something for their labor. Would that have made slavery okay? No, it just would have rendered the details of their slavery more humane. The basis of their condition as slaves was that the fruits of their labor did not go to benefit them, but to benefit others.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that the life the average taxpayer leads today is equal in misery to the life of the average slave 200 years ago. All we're saying is that slavery is slavery, no matter the benevolence of the slaver.

 

[rambone]

If slavery doesn't suit you, call it "economic sodomy."

 

[Eddie]

One thing that I notice is that there is a gap between the point where working for a living provides a better lifestyle than living off the government. When I was much younger I worked in a grocery store. Money was tight and every penny counted. It galled me to see how much of my money went to pay taxes each week. It galled me more to see that those who were living off the goverment dole as opposed to working for a living had better homes and could afford better food than I could buy with my wages earned from working. I particularly remember one day that one of the checkout ladies told a woman that she could not buy dog food with her food stamps. She angrily took the dog food back to the shelf and bought ten pounds of hamburger to feed to her dog. I remember bagging that hamburger and thinking how I was living on ramen noodles with cut up hot dogs in it and how good that hamburger would have tasted except that I could not afford it by working for a living.

Fast forward years later to when I opened my first business. I signed up to be a CWEP site. (I provided job training to people on welfare and in return they worked for free in order to get experience and build up their resume.) I sat down with one of my employees to help her figure up what she would need to earn at a job to maintain her current lifestyle. We valued the home that she got through public housing and all of her other befefits and determined that she would need to earn at least $10 an hour to live as good as she was living off the government. This was at a time when minimum wage was around $5.25 an hour.

Yes. I will agree that there are folks who really need help and I don't mind helping them. There is also a segment of our poplulation that is currently able to choose not to work and by making that choice they live a significantly better life than those of us who are scratching out a living with the entry level jobs available to someone just out of school.

 

[Joe Williams]

You were actually serious?!

Well I guess if you ignore the rape, the whippings, selling your children, not allowing you to go where you want to go, forcing you to pick cotton at gunpoint, etc, etc, etc. then yes it's EXACTLY the same. Yes, the government forcing you to pay taxes is every bit as horrible as what the slaves 200 years ago went through.

Refuse to give your money to Master, and you'll be ripped from your children, confined, raped, beaten, forced to do labor for the state, and possibly killed. So long as you don't object, your slavery isn't as brutal... but withhold your property from Master, and see what happens to you and your family.